Talk:Falaki Shirvani/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 16:19, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Happy to review this article.

Summary

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not) It is reasonably well written. a. (prose, spelling, and grammar): b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a. (reference section): b. (citations to reliable sources): c. (OR): d. (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a. (major aspects): b. (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate. a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b. (appropriate use with suitable captions): Overall: Pass/fail: (Criteria marked are unassessed)

Review comments

Lead section / infobox

• The lead section seems a little on the short side. I would make it two paragraphs, and include for instance, more information about the poet’s works.
• Khāqānī or Khaqani? (The article on this person is also inconsistent.)

Khaqani. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:57, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

• Not GA, but consider amending foreign language words like habsiyat to {{transliteration|fa|[[habsiyat]]}} (habsiyat).
• Link libel here and in the next section.
• The lead is missing Falaki's birth and death dates (see MOS:OPENPARABIO for further information).
• Hasan (1929) p.52 gives other names for Falaki – which I think need to be included.

Biography

• Abu'l-Ala Ganjavi should be introduced.
• Falaki was born – his full name is needed at the start of the main body of the article.
• in Shirvan - consider amending to ‘in Shirvan, now in the administrative centre of the Shamakhi District of Azerbaijan', or something similar.
• his real name being Muhammad – this should be included in the lead section.

Is this necessary? Imho it takes up unnecessary space in the already small lede. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:12, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I think it is. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:46, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Like this? [1] --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:02, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps just 'Muhammad Shirvani (Persian: فلکی شروانی, 1107–1155), known as Falaki Shirvani', although your suggestion will certainly do. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:38, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

• of the Abu'l-Ala Ganjavi - ‘of Abu'l-Ala Ganjavi’?
• Amend The latter's daughter is eventually married with Khaqani (this is copied from a 1929 book and so sounds poorly written to modern ears) to something like ‘Khaqani married Abu'l-Ala Ganjavi’s daughter’.
• Amend The rest of his relatives to ‘His other relatives’ or ‘His remaining relatives’.
• stayed for some time – sounds vague (and redundant if the specific years of his imprisonment cannot be obtained).

Unfortunately we don't know how long he stayed in prison. This is what the cited source says; "From his own poems we know that Falaki's personal name was Muhammad, that he was imprisoned for a time in the fortress of Shabaran, but was later pardoned and set free by Manuchihr." --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Understood. Amitchell125 (talk) 06:25, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

• he claims – should be ‘he claimed’, as he is not now alive.
• a mere skeleton is idiomatic (MOS:IDIOM) and so should be replaced, or written as a quote (e.g. in Hasan (1929) p.59).

Made it a quote. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:37, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

• Hasan (1929) pp.57-58 referred to Falaki's brief involvement in astrology/astronomy, but the article doesn’t mention this.

The start of the biography section kinda talks about it. From what it seems, there is no definite proof that Falaki delved in astronomy, and that it's only Hasan's interpretation of the name "Falaki". --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:25, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Understood. AM

Additional comment

• tadhkirahs leads to a disambiguation page, and there is no useful link to use an an alternative. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:55, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately not. Imo it should be a disambiguation page. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:53, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I disagree, and so does MOS:OL ("Disambiguation pages, such as the Elsa page, should not be linked from articles unless the link is purposeful in a hatnote. Link instead to an appropriate choice on the disambiguation page."). The link should be removed. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:29, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Ops, sorry. Forgot to add the "not", correction; Imo it should not be a disambiguation page, the tadhkirah article that is. Unfortunately, there is nothing better to link it to. I have removed it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:30, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Works

• Consider amending a Persian divan to something like ‘a Persian divan (a collection of poems)’, as many English readers will think of a divan as a type of sofa.
• N the Munich anthology and poetry referenced in other works – what is this?

No idea tbh. Source unfortunately doesn't mention it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:37, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Then neither should the article. I would edit out which he had gathered from the Munich anthology and poetry referenced in other works as excessively detailed. Ditto the Madras manuscript. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:43, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

How about changing "the Munich anthology" and "the Madras manuscript" into "an anthology from Munich" and "a manuscript from Madras"? In that way it sounds less mysterious, and we also get to keep the info. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:32, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Works for me. Amitchell125 (talk) 18:41, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Done. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Additional comment

• This source (page 8) gives the identity and details of the 'Munich anthology' (the record for the manuscript at Munich is here, but sadly it does not seem to have been digitized). Worth including, perhaps, as Hasan used the anthology at Munich when writing his book. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:08, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

• newly found - ‘ newly-found’.
• the Madras manuscript – what is this?

No idea tbh. Source unfortunately doesn't mention it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:37, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

• Replace chunks, as the word is too informal.
• the cities of Kardinan and Sa'dun – no links are available, do these places exist nowadays?

Not from what I could find. To be frank, I don't think I've heard of them before expanding this article. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:11, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

OK. AM

• Link lexicon; Ismat Bukhara'i (Ismat Bukhara'i).
• by Falaki; - should end in a colon.
• According to Rebecca Gould - ‘According to Gould’.

Sources

• Lornejad & Doostzadeh (2012) are not cited in the article, and so should be placed in a Further reading section (or cited).
• Ditto Minorsky (1958).
• Hasan (1929) - 'url-access = registration' is not needed, as the book is freely accessible.
• There appears to be more relevant information relating to Falaki online, that could be included in the article:

• see here for information relating to new manuscripts found in the 21st century;
• see here for information on the importance of Hasan as Falaki’s biographer;
• This source mentions Falaki's other areas of expertise.
• According to this website, Falaki is commemorated in Azerbaijan on 16 May.
• This is a link to more biographical information, as well as poetry.
• There is a link here to a manuscript held by the University of Manchester, which I suspect contains poems by Falaki, but I cannot search within it.

Thanks! The government of Azerbaijan heavily engages in historical negationism and revisionism (which can already be seen in some of these links), and thus I'm not gonna list any of their (to be said bluntly) propaganda here (the book of Lornejad & Doostzadeh was also made to debunk their fabrications). The other links, however, I'll take a look at. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:09, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

On hold

I'm putting this interesting article on hold for a week until 9 April 16 April to allow time for the issues raised to be addressed. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 19:17, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for yet another review, Amitchell125. I'm currently a bit pressed for time, but I'll try to see to it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:03, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

@Amitchell125: Sorry, but could this get extended for at least a week? A lots currently going on atm. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:21, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

That's fine, I'm busy too! Amitchell125 (talk) 06:14, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran: It's looking good so far. I've added a small red cross (N) where I think there are still issues to be sorted. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:57, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Passing

Passing the article now, the only remaining comment is a suggestion, which I will leave to you to consider. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 07:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC)