Talk:Faisal of Saudi Arabia/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: HaEr48 (talk · contribs) 00:28, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

I will start reviewing this. HaEr48 (talk) 00:28, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

First pass review

Initial feedback after first pass:

• There are many passages without citations, including some fully unreferenced paragraphs. I’ve added citation needed tags. Please take a look.
  • I have worked to find citations where possible. Векочел (talk) 19:04, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
• The article talks frequently about “financial reforms” carried out by Faisal, but what the financial reform amounts to is never explained.
  • I have removed that brief section. Векочел (talk) 19:04, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
• “ominous for Saudi Arabia”: isn’t “ominous” a weird word to use for an encyclopedia?
  • A synonym is “threatening” Векочел (talk) 19:03, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
• Include publisher names for books, journals & website: they often give a clue about how reliable the source is.
• “Unlike his successor” name his successor here
  • Khalid of Saudi Arabia Векочел (talk) 19:26, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

• Sorry, I mean please name it in the article. HaEr48 (talk) 08:15, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

• Where in the article is his successor not named? Векочел (talk) 12:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

• In "Religious inclusiveness", there is "Unlike his successor, King Faisal attempted... ". 02:33, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

• His successor's name has been added there. Векочел (talk) 17:54, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

• “haunt the kingdom” use more encyclopedic term
  • Bring harm to the kingdom Векочел (talk) 19:03, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

• I see now it's "worsen the kingdom". The wording is a bit vague and unclear here. Worsen in what way? HaEr48 (talk) 02:33, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

• Worsen it in general. Векочел (talk) 17:53, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

• Then the passage needs to be clarified, "they can worsen the kingdom" is too vague to be informative, in my opinion. I see the passage cites Rachel Bronson (2005), can you clarify which page? You can use {{rp}}, for example. HaEr48 (talk) 06:53, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

How about 'once they were encouraged, disastrous effects would result' Векочел (talk) 21:02, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

• “King Faisal rejected the ulema's opposition to aspects of his accelerated modernization attempts, sometimes even in matters considered by them to be major issues.” -> give a concrete example(s) this abstract sentence
  • An example of this is seen in the education of women in Saudi Arabia. Векочел (talk) 19:00, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
• “Corruption in the royal family ...” the first sentence of this paragraph is too long & difficult to parse. Please break up to simpler sentences
  • It has now been split into two sentences. Векочел (talk) 22:12, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
    • The passage is stil unclear to me. "a religious group that had its basic orientation in the Islamic theological colleges": can we more specifically identify who/what this group is? 02:33, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
      • It seems to be religious groups in general; religion is still an integral part of Saudi life today. Векочел (talk) 17:53, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
        • The passage talks about "a religios group", not religious groups in general, sounds like it's about a specific group. HaEr48 (talk) 06:53, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
          • I am not sure that such a group has a name. Векочел (talk) 20:58, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
            • Then can you explain why this unnamed group is relevant/notable? Without that explanation, I think the relevance ofthe sentence would be hard to understand.HaEr48 (talk) 19:51, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
              • Perhaps it's clearer to say religious figures. Векочел (talk) 20:52, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
• “Peter Hobday stated”... Describe who Peter Hobday is
  • He is a BBC presenter. Векочел (talk) 19:00, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
• “He maintained close relationships with Western democracies”: (1) a blog isn’t usually a reliable source, and (2) the source only describe the necklace, not the close relationship which is the more important assertion in this sentence
  • I have removed the blog and the information it cites. Векочел (talk) 19:26, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
• “King Faisal fathered when he was just fifteen” : I don’t think Faisal was “King Faisal” when he was 15?
  • I have removed “King” from that section. Векочел (talk) 18:55, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
• “Personal life”: Please include birth year, marriage year and divorce/death year of the wives, if available. Also, please clarify if he was polygamous or he just had one wife at a time
  • He had multiple wives at the same time. Векочел (talk) 19:26, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
    • How about the dates for birth/marriage/death of the wives? HaEr48 (talk) 08:15, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
      • @HaEr48: Where possible, they are listed. I could find clear birth and death dates only for Iffat. Векочел (talk) 12:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
• Motive for assasination: some theories were given, but did the assassin himself have anything to say about his motive?
  • I could not find any information that the assassin stated. Векочел (talk) 19:26, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
• “ In 2013 Alexei Vassiliev published a biography” : describe who Vassiliev is
  • Vassiliev is a Russian Arabist. Векочел (talk) 19:05, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
• The publisher for Winber Chai is “University Press”. There are multiple University Presses according to that disambiguation page, please disambiguate using location and/or piped link.
  • University Press of America Векочел (talk) 22:12, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
• "Iffat is credited": Iffat was?
  • A wife of Faisal Векочел (talk) 19:00, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

• I mean, shouldn't it read "was" instead of "is"?

• "It is argued that the US": rather than saying it is argued, say "According to so-and-so, .."
  • I have changed that to read "The author argues..." Векочел (talk) 19:07, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

I'll give further feedback in the following days. HaEr48 (talk) 03:51, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

• @HaEr48 and Векочел: How is this review going. Looks to have stalled? AIRcorn (talk) 23:16, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Some feedback above has not been answered. HaEr48 (talk) 05:26, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Status query

This page has not been edited since August 20, and the article itself was last edited by Векочел on September 22. HaEr48, Векочел, the review has been open for over six months; it's time to either resume it or let it close. I'd like to suggest the end of the year as a reasonable deadline, but if work is progressing by then, there's no reason to cut the review short. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:59, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

My apologies. I missed Векочел's last reply and this just slipped my attention after that. Векочел, are you still up for continuing this review? If yes, I'll give it another pass in the next one or two days. HaEr48 (talk) 18:58, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Of course. It is time that this review ended. Векочел (talk) 19:44, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Second pass

• Lead: His role in the 1973 oil boycott was an important point of his reign and should be mentioned in the lead.
  • Added Векочел (talk) 00:08, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
• Include more aspects of his reign in lead: e.g. crackdown after the coup attempt, and the abolition of slavery.
  • Added Векочел (talk) 00:08, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
• "Like most of his generation, Faisal was raised in an atmosphere in which courage was extremely valued and reinforced": This sounds like WP:PUFFERY a bit. I'd rather see it attributed to who wrote it, e.g. "Historian so-and-so writes that like most of his generation ..."
  • This has been changed following your suggestion. Векочел (talk) 00:08, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
• "In 1925 Prince Faisal, in command of an army of Saudi loyalists, won a decisive victory in the Hejaz": according to Saudi conquest of Hejaz, Faisal was not the overall commander of the Saudi forces. If his role was just a commander of part of the force, please clarify that it was so.
  • He was simply a viceroy. Векочел (talk) 00:08, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
• Also, the conquest of Hijaz was a very major event because it unified the territories of the current Saudi Arabia and gave it control of the holy cities. I think it's worth mentioning.
  • Mentioned Векочел (talk) 00:08, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
    • You removed the entire section, is it intentional? Why? HaEr48 (talk) 00:32, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
      • The person who added this used the wrong page for the source. Векочел (talk) 20:22, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
• "were given the responsibility for the Ikhwan": briefly describe what the Ikhwan is, e.g. "given the responsibility for the nomadic military force known as the Ikhwan"
  •  Done Векочел (talk) 00:08, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
    • Also this part is remevoed, why? HaEr48 (talk) 00:32, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
      • @Векочел: Ping. HaEr48 (talk) 23:28, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
        • The person who added it used the wrong page. Векочел (talk) 20:18, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
• Other biographies, e.g. Britannica mentions his leadership in 1934 campaign against Yemen, as well as reprersenting his country at the United Nations. I'd say these are major aspects of his life, so please include these information.
  • Added Векочел (talk) 00:08, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
• Regarding citation number 2 ( Encyclopedia of World Biography), can you complete the citation to include author and/or publisher, and date? Especially the former is important to judge reliability. Anyone can call themselves "Encyclopedia of Something", but if they have reliable author and/or publisher then we can take it seriously. Especially given that you used it for assertions such as "ill-considered spending program" and "established his reputation as a reforming and modernizing figure", which some might consider disputed.
  • This doesn't seem to be a reliable source, so I've removed it. Векочел (talk) 00:08, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
• "but it is unclear how serious the threat actually was": no source given.
  • Removed Векочел (talk) 15:00, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
• Infobox: The children named here is much more than those named in the article body, so please include sources.
  • I have noted that he had numerous children. Векочел (talk) 15:00, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
• Infobox: I believe the city where his death took place should be known? Currently it just says "Saudi Arabia" in the infobox.
  • Riyadh (source given in infobox) Векочел (talk) 15:00, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
• Infobox: Hanbali is a legal school, not sure if it needs to be specified in the religion field.
  • I would include it, because it is a type of Islam. Векочел (talk) 15:00, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
    • It is a school of Islamic law (see Hanbali and Madhhab), not a type or sect of religion. HaEr48 (talk) 00:32, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
      • @HaEr48: Ok, I'll remove this. Векочел (talk) 01:05, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
• Please also see the unresolved points in the first pass review.

• @Векочел: please respond to the unanswered points below (I've marked them blue for your convenience). HaEr48 (talk) 19:51, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

-- HaEr48 (talk) 19:26, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Passing

@Векочел:: I've passed the review. Sorry for the delay. One last suggestion that you haven't acted on: Please narrow down the page number that you used for reference for the passage "once religious zealots were encouraged, disastrous effects would result". You can use {{rp}}, for exammple. HaEr48 (talk) 07:45, 31 December 2018 (UTC)