Talk:FARGO (programming language)

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Tab Machine Discussion

Normally, people who make significant changes to an existing Wiki have the courtesy to discuss the changes before they make them.

The anonymous writer who replace the general language refering to tab machines with "a 407s" operations may not be aware that there were to other tab machines that featured plug boards, namely the IBM 402, IBM 403 and IBM 405. There were older obsolete tab machines, but the 403, 406 and 407 all made it into the 1960s in the USA, perhaps longer internationally. FOLLOW-UP: Yes, I concede that the manual does refer to the 407 but as a practical matter FARGO was used by other tab machine shops.

Secondly, tabulating machines could multiply and divide if the technician knew the technique for doing this. It was done using that add counters for multiplication because in a mechanical sense multiplication is simply a series of addition instructions. I presume the division operation is accomplished the same way, however I have not done the operation myself. Perhaps because multiplication and division were such resource hogs, "In 1952, IBM first used core memory in an experimental 405 model" and in the 1960s IBM introduced a CAM unit that provided core memory and other operations. This was really the last dying gasp for the tab machines as the new IBM System 3 was priced to enable IBM to ship the remaining tab inventory overseas.

I will revert the 407 language back to "implement input, output, control and counter operations (add, subtract, multiply, divide)."

If there is a need for further discussion, I'll be happy to engage. YORD-the-unknown 17:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you are looking for common ground, incorporating multiple points of view, rather than reverting it would seem that you have useful information to add -- that FARGO while implemented specifically for 407s was useful for other conversions as well.

Since the article's subject is FARGO, it's not clear how the article is improved by a listing 407 functions, some of which are special features. Why not document those special features, CAM, etc., in IBM 407 where they would be available to all readers interested in the 407?

Should you want to leave your list in the FARGO article, it might be possible to improve it by using terms consistent with the 407 documentation. "Input", "Output" do not appear in either the 407 manual's (the version avilable online) toc or index. "Division" does not appear and "Multiplication" is, I think, only by a constant (I've wired a 407 to accumulate sums of squares, so I do have an idea as to its capabilites).

thanks, 69.106.232.37 22:10, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly, common ground exists here. After reading your changes I re-explored the IBM 407 manual and it clearly does not identify the technique for multiplication.

I cannot tell you precisely how this was wired, but my recollection is that the multiplier was used to compared with a counter. This is where it gets REALLY grey -- it has been over forty years -- but my recollection is that cycles are used for each digit multiplied. So a multiplier of 7 would require seven cycles, but I cannot recall how this cycling was accomplished.

In 1964, one of the top techs in our USAF shop developed the technique then revealed it to the rest of us. Sorry, but that is about all I can recall at this time. If I get some time this week I'll dig through the manual and see if I can shed more light on this. Let me know your thoughts. YORD-the-unknown 01:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: "Normally, people who make significant changes to an existing Wiki have the courtesy to discuss the changes before they make them.", that is incorrect. Please see Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. --Guy Macon (talk) 18:31, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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