Talk:Eyes That Kiss in the Corners

A fact from Eyes That Kiss in the Corners appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 7 April 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the picture book Eyes That Kiss in the Corners was written to celebrate and empower Asian identities?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Eyes That Kiss in the Corners.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Rlink2 (talk) 00:42, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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~~... that the picture book Eyes That Kiss in the Corners was written to celebrate the beauty of Asian eyes and the power that those of Asian heritage have to create change in the world?~~ Source: Determined to refute a childhood of media consumption that solely validated “impossibly narrow” Western beauty standards, debut author Joanna Ho told PW she set out to write a picture book that “celebrated not only the physical beauty of Asian eyes, but also the power we have to create change in the world.” - Publishers Weekly
- Reviewed: Ronald Lou-Poy

Created by SL93 (talk). Self-nominated at 01:45, 7 March 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Article was nominated within the first seven days of creation. QPQ completed. Prose is over 1,500 characters and written neutrally. Text is cited properly with inline citations. Earwig reported a 44.1% likelihood of copyright violation, but it mostly caught direct quotes that were cited in the article. It's fine but I would highly recommend rewording some of them. Hook seems a bit wordy; I suggest focusing on one aspect or the other. Lead needs a bit of copy-editing but is not relevant to the nomination in itself. (i.e. "Eyes That Kiss in the Corners is a January 5, 2021, picture book published by HarperCollins." might be better reworded as "Eyes That Kiss in the Corners is a 2021 picture book by Joanna Ho, published by HarperCollins on January 5, 2021 as her debut work.")lullabying (talk) 05:52, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lullabying I changed the lead to your suggestion and reworded some quotes down to "35.5%" and "Violation unlikely". I propose ALT1 ~~... that the picture book Eyes That Kiss in the Corners was written to celebrate the beauty of Asian eyes?~~ SL93 (talk) 00:16, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@SL93: Great. Maybe for the ALT1 something like "... that the picture book Eyes That Kiss in the Corners was written to celebrate and empower Asian identities?" lullabying (talk) 09:51, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That works. Thanks for the review. I placed a tag for someone to review your hook. SL93 (talk) 13:02, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

approve ALT1 as cited and interesting! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 22:06, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"(East) Asian eyes"

@SL93: In this edit SL93, primary article author, reverts this edit by an IP address, "Changed "Asian" to "East Asian" to be more clear to non-US readers and more specific regarding the topic of eye shape." on the grounds that "sources don't say East Asian". I'm afraid I agree with the IP. Which is a rare exception; normally I'd be all for following the sources, and I'd even be somewhat tempted to give a bit more latitude to the main author of the article. But the IP has it right here. I did a quick search for sources that say "East Asian eyes" in respect to this book, and couldn't find any. But we should still use those words.

The issue is that Wikipedia is supposed to be written for English speakers in general to understand, and for a noticeable number of the world's English speakers, possibly even a majority, "Asian" does not necessarily mean "East Asian", as is the overwhelming majority in the United States. This is an American book, and in the United States the majority of Asians are East Asians; if you refer to "Asian eyes", it's pretty clear that you mean "East Asian eyes", see that link (between Chinese, Filipino, and Southeast Asians, most of which do have these eyes; see Asian Americans). But in the United Kingdom, "Asian" - British Asian - basically means "South Asian" (Indian, Pakistani, etc.), which do not have these eyes. And in India, or Pakistan, or Israel, each of which have a noticeable proportion of English speakers, if you refer to "Asian Eyes", you get -"huh?" - because there the inhabitants are Asian, and also mostly don't have the eyes referred to here. It's pretty clear that this book is talking about the Epicanthic fold, but as this is a children's book, it doesn't use those words (I'd be surprised if it used any words of 4 syllables especially Latinate ones).

If people prefer, we can use the words Epicanthic fold here. But if not, I agree with the IP, and we should say East Asian eyes, at least in explanation. Even though the sources don't use the words. This is basically a translation issue, and just as if we could and should write in English even if all our sources used non-English, or length in meters and/or feet even if all our sources used cubits, here we need to explain that the "Asian eyes" referred to here are specifically "East Asian eyes". This is what Wikipedia:Ignore all rules was invented for. --GRuban (talk) 21:00, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I will readd it. My issue is no matter how obvious something is, I didn't want to be on the receiving end of an original research claim. SL93 (talk) 21:23, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! The WP:IAR path is a difficult and dangerous path, but occasionally we must tread it.

--GRuban (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]