Talk:Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star

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Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
May 13, 2015	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on May 28, 2015.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that one can hear parts of Sonic Youth's 1987 album Sister in quiet sections of the band's 1994 album Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star, because it was recorded over the same master tapes?

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sparklism (talk · contribs) 11:39, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take this one on - expect my comments over the next few days. Thanks — sparklism ^hey! 11:39, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This looks like a pretty solid article after a first read through. Here are a few things I found:

Lead

Unlike its predecessors Dirty, Experimental Jet Set features... - Should this be just 'predecessor' (singular)?

Yes, it should be fixed now. Thanks. --Niwi3 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Background and recording

...the follow-up to Sonic Youth's 1992 album Dirty, released through DGC... - I think this should say "...which was released...", so it's clear that we're talking about Dirty

Done --Niwi3 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard the word 'distantiate', so I looked it up. Dictionary.com didn't know it either, though Wiktionary did. Is there a simpler word to use?

Replaced with "step away" --Niwi3 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

...which singer and guitarist Thurston Moore thought was what the media used to associate the band with. This seems a little clumsy. How about "which singer and guitarist Thurston Moore thought the media associated the band with."?

I agree. --Niwi3 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You might want to 'introduce' Butch Vig, since it 's the first time we've met him

Added "alternative rock veteran". --Niwi3 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What is a 'buzz remover'? Is there anything it can be wikilinked to?

It's a tool that helps producers reduce noise (or "buzz") in audio tracks. I used noise reduction as a wikilink because I cannot find an article dedicated to the actual device. --Niwi3 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, if the volume is turned up high, one can hear Sister played underneath between tracks This is my favourite part of the whole article, and will possibly make a great DYK once this has passed. But, the tone of it just doesn't really fit here. How about something along the lines of "They subsequently claimed that at high volume it was possible to hear Sister playing between album tracks on the final recording." Something like that, anyway....

I'm glad you enjoyed that part of the article; I might consider the possibility to nominate it for DYK. In any case, I replaced the sentence with the following: "As a result, it is possible to hear Sister played underneath between tracks on the final recording if the volume is turned up high." What do you think? Thanks --Niwi3 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I still don't think we've quite got it right, somehow. The "...underneath between tracks..." phrasing is troubling me slightly - 'underneath' doesn't quite seem the correct term for some reason, though I know what it means and I can't think of a better one right now. Maybe it should just be "..playing between tracks..".

Also, is this actually true? I say that because the band allegedly recorded over Sister (according to the Spin source), but then the bit about it being true that you can hear it playing between tracks is from a primary source. Are there any other sources that can confirm this? — sparklism ^hey! 07:34, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a bit of a dig around. This Stereogum article says to save money, Experimental Jet Set, Trash And No Star was recorded over the band's previously used master tapes (a common practice), so if you turn the album up real loud, you can hear Sister leak through during quiet parts - this is a good source, which meets WP:V IMO.

However, there's a really interesting (non-reliable, OR) post in this thread, where somebody has used some digital manipulation to test the theory and come up with the conclusion that parts of Sister are audible between the tracks, but that they are likely put there deliberately (sort of like self-sampling) as some kind of easter egg/in-joke.

I think, then, that's it's safest for us to say that the band claimed that they had recorded over the master tapes (ref: Spin) and that it is possible to hear some elements of Sister playing in the quiet bits (ref: Stereogum). Does that make sense? — sparklism ^hey! 10:33, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I own the CD and can definitely hear "Schizophrenia" between tracks 1 and 2. As for the possibility of them deliberately adding parts of Sister only between tracks, I personally think that's not the case. As far as I know, Sonic Youth has always loved and respected the indie/DIY aesthetic and faking it would not be their style. In any case, I agree and think that it is more accurate to reword it like that. Thanks for that 3rd party source! --Niwi3 (talk) 18:30, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a go at simplifying this a little - is this OK with you? — sparklism ^hey! 05:20, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is perfectly fine :) --Niwi3 (talk) 10:13, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Music and lyrics

You might want to introduce Dave Markey by saying that he's a film director

I agree. Things are better when put into context. --Niwi3 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We could wikilink hidden track

Done --Niwi3 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Promotion & release

...the band's highest peak on the US charts... I think this would be better as "the band's highest position on the US charts..."

I agree. --Niwi3 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Critical reception

The link to 'Superunknown: 50 Iconic Albums That Defined 1994' points to the Smashing Pumpkins' album, not the SY one

Fixed. Thanks --Niwi3 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Summary

I may well add to the points raised above, but this is already a really nice article. — sparklism ^hey! 14:14, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Again, thank you very much for your time, excellent review, and interest in this band, really appreciated. I think I have addressed all the issues you brought up. Please let me know if there is anything else that needs to be fixed. Cheers :) --Niwi3 (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's looking really good now. I've still got a concern about the recording over the Sister master tapes - see my comment above. I think it's worth getting this absolutely spot on, as this is the most interesting part of the article (and a surefire DYK if it can all be sorted). Thanks! — sparklism ^hey! 07:36, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'm happy to promote this to GA, since I believe that it meets the criteria. Congratulations Niwi3, another fine GA to add to your collection - keep up the great work! (and sorry this dragged on a bit - I was off-web for a few days...) — sparklism ^hey! 15:25, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]