Talk:Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey

Fair use rationale for Image:The White Album.jpg

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BetacommandBot 03:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Personnel

Since other songs had this section, I´m gonna add it, according to Lewishon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.40.0.34 (talk) 17:51, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I gave this article a B-Class because it lacks references and flow. I gave it Mid importance because, while it is a famous song of theirs, it is not extremely important to the history of the Beatles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Man13 (talk • contribs) 15:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 00:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 14:48, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Joe Goodden's Riding So High

Hey JG66. I saw you recently removed ([1] [2]) Joe Goodden's book as a source due to it being self-published. I'm not clear on whether this is true, as Pepper & Pearl (run by AllMusic) is not included on the list of self-published sources, nor does it describe itself on its website as a self-publishing service, though I agree it is not a well established publisher. With that said, I think that even if we take it to be a self-published source, it still meets Wikipedia's criteria for its use, as laid out at WP:USESPS. Erin Torkelson Weber, who, as far as I am aware, is the only qualified historian to have written about Beatles historiography, wrote a glowing review on her blog, where she reviews books published too late to have made it into her 2016 book, The Beatles and the Historians. If you'll indulge me, here are some choice quotations regarding the source's validty:

Joe Goodden's Riding So High: The Beatles and Drugs (2017), proves itself to be an essential new work in Beatles historiography. This is due to two major elements: the first involves the book's subject matter regarding how drug use impacted the Beatles story. ... The second involves the necessary level of objectivity displayed within the book. ... Crucially, Riding So High includes citations within the text, allowing readers to see the sources used and, in many cases, date the era and, therefore, the agenda of an interview or statement. Citing sources also allows the reader to investigate the credibility and accuracy of an interview or source. Second, on issues where contradictory accounts and interpretations exist the author provides both sides of the debate and allows the reader to decide. ... Ultimately, Riding So High provides an objective, well-documented look at how drug use infused and impacted numerous aspects of Beatles history. While not, by definition, a reference work, it would seemingly prove essential for any author wanting to know not only what drug a particular Beatle was using at a particular moment in time, but also what the commonly accepted side effects were and, in some cases, what specific impacts certain chemicals had on certain events. For this author, the importance of Goodden's work also extends into historical methods analysis: now that a documented synthesis on Beatles’ drug use is available, the element of drug use also can be incorporated into source analysis when determining the accuracy and credibility of various interviews and statements. In this way, Beatles historiography can build on itself, improving in methodology and interpretation in order to gain a more accurate understanding of the band’s story.

I think with the above in mind, we can use Goodden in good conscience, since Torkelson Weber is well trained in source analysis through her work as a historian. Tkbrett (✉) 12:58, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

<edit conflict>Tkbrett, I'm not going to read all that, just to consider whether a self-published book on the Beatles should be considered for inclusion, and especially when its purpose here would be to support commentary on an issue that's clearly been attached to the song by a mix of failing memories, journalists looking to play up a possible drug angle, and journalists and biographers misconstruing Lennon's 1980 remarks as being about the whole song (when I believe they were about only the song title). I say "clearly" because Lennon wrote the song sometime before the Beatles gathered to work on the Esher demos in late May; he and Ono first became a couple on 19 May and, in fact, I believe that Lennon recorded his demos alone at Kenwood (before the get-together at Kinfuans) but took his tapes along, where the others contributed, and the songs were then added to Harrison's master reels. Also, Lennon said he got into heroin because of the nasty treatment he and Ono received from the other Beatles and the band's friends ... So, put all that together, and the song's written before, say, the shock, band-policy-defying appearance of Ono in the studio alongside Lennon at the first White Album session, which is 30 May (and possibly before he and Ono first got together on 19 May); and the lyrics are full of Maharish-isms learnt in Rishikesh; and the song certainly precedes his stated introduction to heroin and the cause for that (the other Beatles/friends hadn't had a chance to "reject" Yoko yet, because she hadn't annoyed them yet).

I've been trying to access the 1980 Playboy interview and read Lennon's comments about the track, without success, at google and Amazon. (Does he really say the song is about him and Ono, or is he only talking about the title? His comment "That was just a sort of nice line that I made into a song. It was about me and Yoko" could easily be read as referring only to the title – depending perhaps on the question that was put to him. Seems to me that the writer of the Rolling Stone "100 Greatest Beatles Songs" entry has taken it as Lennon referring to the whole song, though.)

There were up to 1000 books on the Beatles by the year 2000 (I read that in a review of the Anthology book – in the Guardian, Independent or Observer); so if this self-published title doesn't make it, so what? Sorry if I'm sounding impatient and dismissive, but it doesn't seem to be of any benefit to the subject. JG66 (talk) 13:55, 25 October 2021 (UTC)