Talk:Political influence of Evangelicalism in Latin America

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Rise of the Evangelical Church in Latin America was copied or moved into Evangelical political parties in Latin America with this edit on 5 November 2020. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

This article was nominated for deletion on 10 December 2020. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Requested move 27 June 2020

This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 9 November 2020. The result of the move review was No consensus.

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was proposed in this section that Evangelical Christian politics in Latin America be renamed and moved somewhere else, with the name being decided below.

result:
Moved to Rise of the Evangelical Church in Latin America. See strong agreement below that the current title should be changed; however, we see little in the way of consensus for what would be the highest and best title. In a case like this the closing instructions state that the closer must choose among the suggested titles. To quote from that guide... "the closer should pick the best title of the options available, and then be clear that while consensus has rejected the former title (and no request to bring it back should be made lightly), there is no consensus for the title actually chosen. And if anyone objects to the closer's choice, then instead of taking it to move review, they should simply make another move request at any time, which will hopefully lead the article to its final stable title." Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 02:05, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Links: current log • target log

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Evangelical Christian politics in Latin America → ? – The phenomenon is much wider, it is not all about politics. I've translated this article to Portuguese with a new name. Loosely translated, it is called "Rise of the evangelical church in Latin America". That name is more appropriate, for it also suggests that it is an unusual phenomenon. I mean, evangelical Christians haven't always had influence in politics, but all of a sudden they do.

I don't know precisely what the name in English should be like, so I left question mark "?" in the field above. --Bageense^(disc.) 19:29, 27 June 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. BD2412 T 00:30, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure if good idea, the article is not History of the Neopentecostals in Latin America is about their political involvement. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 03:05, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion: Influence of Evangelicalism in Latin America. Unreal7 (talk) 20:19, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Suggestion: Influence of Evangelical Christianity in Latin America, since "Evangelicalism" is kind of a neologism Red Slash 23:16, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Red Slash, I still think neither of those are good alternatives because I think this article is (or should be) about the recent rise of evangelical influence, and not just the influence in general. But those names are still better than the current one --Bageense^(disc.) 15:54, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 9 January 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Page moved to Political influence of Evangelicalism in Latin America.
There is support for a page move, and as this article is currently focused on political influence only, a more precise title is appropriate. (I note that "Evangelical Christianity" (the other form suggested) redirects to "Evangelicalism"). (non-admin closure) Xyl 54 (talk) 07:36, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rise of the Evangelical Church in Latin America → ? – ~~Evangelical Christian politics in Latin America – I propose a return to the status quo with the change for the original title "Evangelical Christian politics in Latin America".~~

The last requested move was confusing and there was no clear consensus on the title that would be adopted. In fact, no one supported the current title.

In the elimination discussion, most participants agreed that the current title is inappropriate. The article describes the political influence and political ideologies of evangelical churches in Latin America. So the current title is out of scope. Fontaine347 (talk) 12:41, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 13:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. For one thing, it is inappropriate to return to the previous title that consensus was against in the previous move request, which began in June of 2020. For another thing, it would be appropriate to ping the participants of that discussion, so to Bageense, Unreal7 and Red Slash, welcome to the new move request. My opposition is based upon the opinion that going back to the previous discarded title would quite possibly be just going from bad to worse. It would be better to consider one of the other suggested titles, Influence of Evangelicalism in Latin America (suggested by editor Unreal7) or Influence of Evangelical Christianity in Latin America (suggested by editor Red Slash). I support Evangelicalism in Latin America as the best possible title for this article. ~~either of these with a slight favor toward the second one, mostly because I dislike long, -ism words such as "evangelicalism".~~ P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 21:55, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't that mean changing Evangelicalism to Evangelical Christianity? Unreal7 (talk) 22:37, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Point taken. Personal preferences aside, it seems that both terms are title-worthy, one concise and one precise. Almost conflated the term with evangelism. P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 01:43, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Almost any title would do better than the ridiculous title it has right now. But I think it should be Political influence of Evangelical Christianity in Latin America as the article deals almost entirely with that. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 14:51, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Consider "Influence of Evangelical Christianity in Latin America" again, as suggested in the prior RM. The current title seemingly implies a continuing upward slope that has a tone of WP:RELTIME news reporting of recent events rather than encyclopedic permanence. — BarrelProof (talk) 06:40, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. "Political influence of Evangelical Christianity in Latin America" seems to be an suitable title since the article is centered on a political theme. In fact, any of the suggested titles is better than the current one.
I think it would be appropriate to ping participants in the elimination discussion who suggested changing the title: Peterkingiron, ★Trekker, 1990'sguy. Maybe they come up with suggestions. --Fontaine347 (talk) 22:25, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Fontaine347: I think Political influence of Evangelical Christianity in Latin America would be a good title.★Trekker (talk) 07:28, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Adding "political" to the title might well-describe this article's contents in it present form; however, it might also limit the scope of this article. Influence of Evangelicalism in Latin America may very well include influence of non-political natures on the lives of Latin American people. Perhaps this article can be expanded to include more than just political influence, and then if the article becomes long, we can revisit and split the article into "Political influence of..." and so on? P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 02:43, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't that falls a little under Wikipedia:BALL? I mean, I see your point, however it will be easier to rename the article in the event the scope trascends the political part in the future, not the other way around. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 03:43, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Could be right. And yet how likely is it that an editor comes to this article, reads it, and then starts adding verifiable info on influences other than political? I don't see how you could expect the scope to "transcend the political part" while having "political" in its title. Not likely imho. On the other hand, it might spur an editor on to write a new article, something like Religious influence of Evangelicalism in Latin America or Influence of Evangelicalism on the arts in Latin America? Maybe we should just follow other articles like Evangelicalism in the Philippines and Evangelicalism in the United States and just call this article Evangelicalism in Latin America? P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 06:35, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Wikipedia is made to the readers, not the editors. The entire text of the article describes the political influence and political ideologies of evangelical churches in Latin America, changing the title to "Evangelicalism in Latin America" or "influence of Evangelicalism in Latin America" will create a misleading title for readers. Someone can create these articles in the future. I think it is not coherent for the article to have a title out of scope, By WP: CRITERIA: "Precision – The title unambiguously identifies the article's subject (...)". --Fontaine347 (talk) 15:45, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Don't recall indicating in any way shape or form that Wikipedia was for editors and not readers. Editors are readers. This article is a Start-class page that is barely beyond Stub class. That says to me that there is still plenty of room for apolitical subjects to be introduced. There is no Earthly reason to limit the scope of this article so early in its development. So the best title would be Evangelicalism in Latin America in order for editors to help readers better understand the entire subject of that title. P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 20:02, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think Evangelicams in Latin America works, that sounds like if the article is about teology or history, about the history of evangelicalism which is not the case, is about it influence on society, mostly on politics right now. If Political influence is not accepted my second option would be Influence of. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 21:02, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that there is a consensus that both the previous title and the current title are inappropriate. So I redid the proposal.

Support the title Political influence of Evangelical Christianity in Latin America, per Dereck Camacho. According to WP: CRITERIA the titles must be consistent with the subject of the article. This article is about a specific topic (politics) not about a general topic. Renaming it to "Evangelicalism in Latin America" will make the title incongruous with the text of the article. --Fontaine347 (talk) 13:30, 16 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

While I do prefer the title to which you object, "Evangelicalism in Latin America", and do so because this is a short article that could be expanded into other areas (I myself as a "reader" would like to know more about Evangelicalism in Latin American countries, both political and apolitical details), I'm not opposed to your newly nominated title. If the article is expanded well, then the title can be revisited later. So I do support Political influence of Evangelicalism in Latin America, a more concise and appropriate title about Evangelicalism. (In this case I consider the "Christianity" word to be unnecessary precision.) P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 20:00, 16 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Closed: Page moved to Political influence of Evangelicalism in Latin America. Xyl 54 (talk) 07:36, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Recent edits

This page was proposed by User:Ochentero for a merge to Evangelical political parties in Latin America on 5 January: There was no explanation given, and no discussion opened on either talk page. The flag was then removed earlier today, with the edit summary "No enough support on talk page for merge"; then (with no further explanation or discussion) the 'Evangelical political parties...' page was merged here.
I’ve no opinion whether the merge is appropriate or not, but I do know this is a pretty shoddy carry-on, so I have un-merged them again. If anyone feels this merge is a good idea I suggest they propose it, with a rationale, so it can be discussed in the proper manner.
I am pinging all contributors to the previous discussions here (Bageense, Unreal7, Red Slash, Fontaine347, Dereck Camacho, Paine Ellsworth, BarrelProof, ★Treker) for comment. Xyl 54 (talk) 21:49, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support - don't think it needs a separate article. I'd support merging. Unreal7 (talk) 22:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OK: I’m not proposing a merge, here, I’m asking for comment. If you think it’s a good idea, would you care to make a proposal (merge what to where, for example), and explain the reason why? Xyl 54 (talk) 22:24, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wait what do I comment about? Unreal7 (talk) 23:42, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OK wasn't that already done? The merge template was placed on the article for weeks. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 03:34, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Unreal7:, Dereck Camacho: So first of all, this isn’t a subject I know much about; I came here because I was checking through the backlog at WP:RM. As far as the merge tag goes, it was proposing to merge this page with the Evangelical political parties page, but didn’t say why, and there was nothing here to show anyone was in favour of that; when the merge was actually done, the other page was moved here, again without any consensus, and I objected to the high-handedness of it. But I notice, on further examination (though there’s nothing here to indicate it), that the Political Parties page was split from here in November, so putting it all back is logical enough. If you are all agreed, I would suggest simply undoing the reverts I did yesterday; I certainly don’t object. Or if you prefer I can self-revert. Up to you... Xyl 54 (talk) 04:33, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I think is the best option. Maybe the merging user considered that there was no objection on the merge proposal. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 14:30, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we can only assume good faith… It’s been nearly a week since I pinged everyone about this; if there are no objections by tomorrow I will merge the EPP page to here. Xyl 54 (talk) 22:31, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support, the reason for the split was resolved. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 01:20, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

Based on the discussion above, the proposal would be to merge Evangelical political parties in Latin America back into this article, reversing the content split in November 2020. All contributors were notified on 17 January; of these, two supported a merger, and there are no objections. Pages merged with this edit. Xyl 54 (talk) 23:27, 24 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccuracies

Nelson Rockefeller was never Nixon's Vice-President. Rockefeller only became VP in 1974, not 1969. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:2920:1CC0:C862:9DF7:4383:ABA2 (talk) 00:31, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]