Talk:Eugenius I of Toledo

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Requested move 2 April 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move both. I will also delete the name Eugenius III of Toledo as there are no references for that name. Editors familiar with the subject should go through the incoming links to make sure they're all pointing to the correct places. Cúchullain ^t/c 20:15, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

– Page was originally Eugenius I with CathEn material fr Eugenius II. Title subsequently changed to reflect content. Some months later second page opened with same info but titled Eugenius III (II was already taken). Current page info conforms to the originally intended Eugenius I; references found for second page all call him "Eugenius II". (Only Eugenius III found so far was a Pope.) Mannanan51 (talk) 17:28, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies if I'm going about this wrong, but I found these pages very confusing. Catholic Encyclopedia, Karl Josef von Hefele, Olivia Constable, and CUA publishing all seem to call Eugenius the Younger, Eugenius II. The only instances of the use of III appear to be wikimirrors. Mannanan51 (talk) 17:34, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support. There are two real guys and a legendary guy. That's the source of the confusion. Srnec (talk) 22:58, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Red Slash 20:45, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Follow-up

Thats wrong, there is mention of Eugenius III (as your or the Catholic Encyclopedias Eugenius II) in the literature,see the standard work of Max Manitius, Geschichte der lateinischen Literatur des Mittelalters. This is logical, since there are three Bishops of Toledo with the name Eugenius, the first (Eugenius I) was a saint, fr:Eugène de Deuil-la-Barre. When the distinction I, II, III is not standard in the literature one should consider other forms of names to distinguish them. --Claude J (talk) 07:24, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No. As I explained above, rather laconically, and as I have now explained in the article... There are only two historical bishops of Toledo named Eugene and they are now commonly called Eugene I and Eugene II. At some point during the Middle Ages, the legend of a disciple of Saint Denis named Eugene becoming the first bishop of Toledo and dying a martyr caught on. So, some authorities renumbered the Eugenes. As far as I can tell, the founding bishop and martyr is completely legendary, although I can see that the French and German Wikipedias treat him as historical. Unfortunately, they use dated sources. If you have sources to show that the first (martyred) Eugene is in fact historical (or even possibly so), then we should reconsider the move. Srnec (talk) 04:36, 1 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]