Jump to content

Talk:Ethiopian Greeks

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Greeks in Ethiopia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:28, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong info

[edit]

No annexation of Ethiopian lands or colonies by the Greeks completely false. No evidence of zoscales founding Axum as written in the perilous and furthermore Greek was used much later on the kingdom to facilitate trade alongside ge’ez. This page is merely agenda based without real accuracy 2A02:C7C:36FF:3600:3541:34:3283:3E31 (talk) 19:40, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your reading skills and comprehension for this section are poor; the City-State of Axum existed prior to the Axumite Empire, but historians date the beginning of the Empire to Zoskales, because he brought the principal cities together under his rule.
Further your claim Greeks never came into Ethiopian lands is blatantly false. Learning about Ptolemy's wars into Nubian and Ethiopian lands, we can clearly see places like Ptolemais Theron and the port of Adulis were captured and built as Greek cities.
Your deletion and removal of cited historic material is nothing more than your attempt to delete history to push a narrative that Greeks never stepped foot in Ethiopia, and had nothing to do with the region- both claims which are demonstrably false. Aearthrise (talk) 19:50, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That is completely false and your comprehension is clearly quite poor. There is no evidence of a Zoscales founding Axum or being the first king of Axum, that is my point! but rather he was said to be a petty king in Adulis. There was no capture or founding of Adulis, no evidence of such and it was erroneously described as a Greek depot, they did trade but it was not founded by the Greeks but its existence is said to be founded by the people themselves showing an extensive trade route that was already in place between the Egyptians and Sudan with the name being of Saho origin. You need to do further research on Eritrea. You then claim that Greek was used as the lingua Franca when it was used much later on in the Kingdom to facilitate trade. No evidence of a conquest or annexation and the location of plotemaic hunts is unclear no evidence of it being along the horn. The fact you used Britannica as your source said quite enough. I’m sorry but your information is all over the place and you have mish mashed information with no accuracy. 2A02:C7C:36FF:3600:903C:C0E8:CD4:B522 (talk) 22:29, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Again, your reading skills and comprehension are poor, and you're inventing information that this article doesn't say.
You claim that Zoskales didn't found Axum or was the first king of Axum; I already touched on this point in my last response, which you are deciding to ignore now- this article states he founded the Empire of Axum, not the city itself, yet you want to claim this false premise? This only demonstrates your own ignorance and poor reading comprehension skills.
Nowhere in this article do we find any information on the founding Adulis, one of the false claims you're making. The only information this article states in regards to Adulis is that it became a hub for Greek trade, which is categorically true.
Lastly, you claim that there is no evidence that Greeks came down along the horn, and that there were no conquests or annexations. This is another one of your false claims, based on nothing more than your opinion.
I've added another citation giving more evidence of Ptolemy III Euergetes conquests of Adulis and the surrounding area:
Towards the end of his reign Ptolemy Euergetes undertook an expedition to Adulis, the modern Maszawwah, whence he pushed his conquests along both shores of the Red Sea on the African side, subjugated the sea-port states as far as Zingebar, and the countries inland as far as Shawa, a province to the south-east of the first Nile. The record of this expedition was preserved in the Adulitic inscription discovered by Cosmas in the year 525 of our era, and 750 years after the visit of Ptolemy to Adulis.
As can be seen, all of your arguments come either from your inability to understand the content of this article, or from your own subjective opinions on how you think history should be. Indeed, your whole premise for removing the cited content from this article comes from your own ignorance, and the historical evidence proves without a doubt that this article is accurate. Aearthrise (talk) 01:04, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You clearly have no evidence for what you have written but based it on the inscription which you have interpreted as being an annexation of Ethiopian/Eritrean lands and there is no mention/evidence of such. Either provide the archaeology or evidence for such, or your information which we already knew is based on nothing but your interpretation, already established there was no plotemais theron in Eritrea and no evidence of a capture. Unless you have information to the contrary do share. As for my info on Adulis, I gave context I did not deny Greek presence or trade, again your inability to understand what I have written is proof of your falsifications and mish mash of information on your page. You need to understand the difference between annexation and presence, I am stating the former did not occur and there is no evidence of such. You have not even realised your first paragraph was garbled and contradiction your former response. Now provide the evidence or do more research on the stelae. The burden of proof lies with you since you made the claim. 87.81.92.46 (talk) 06:27, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You claim there is no evidence for capture of Northern Ethiopian lands; this is idiotic.
I have already provided evidence of Ptolemy Euergetes III's conquests and subjugations in Northern Ethiopia, i.e. Ptolemy's expedition for Adulis in Northern Ethiopia, and you can clearly see this evidence in just the last response I made to you!
How can you continue, presented with this evidence, to make nonsensical claims about falsifications and mish mash of information, and say that Greeks never annexed Northern Ethiopian towns? You're just speaking vapidly and nonsensically, and your argument is shot.
As for the style of architecture and monuments found in Axum, i've added further citations:
Axum, the ancient capital of Habbesh, appears to have been much adorned, if not founded, by the Ptolemies. The ruins are in the Egyptian style, but the want of Hieroglyphics seems to indicate, that the city was built by Egyptian artists rather than peopled by an Egyptian colony. It is one of the obscurest parts of Abyssinian history which relates to the building and desertion of the city.
Two days's journey farther on, one comes to the ruins of Axum, the ancient capital of Abyssinia. "In one square," says Bruce "which I apprehend to have been the centre of the town, there are forty obelisks, none of which have any hieroglyphics on them. The first two have fallen down, but the third a little smaller than them is still standing. They are all hewn from one block of granite, and on the top of that which is standing there is a patera, exceedingly well engraved in the Greek style.
After passing the convent of Abba Pantaleon called in Abyssinia, Matilles, and the small obelisk situated on a rock above, we proceed south by a road cut in a mountain of red marble, having on the left a parapet-wall above five feet high, solid and of the same materials. At equal distances there are hewn in this wall solid pedestals, upon the tops of which we see the marks where stood the colossal statues of Syrius, the Latrator Anubis, or Dog Star. One hundred and thirty of these pedestals, with the marks of the statues I just mentioned, are still in their place; but only two figures of the dog remained when I was there, much mutilated, but of a taste easily distinguished to be Egyptian.
Adona is at present superior in importance, but Axum is the most interesting town in Tigré, and even in Abyssinia, from the extent of its monuments. From the style of its architectural remains, it is believed to have been erected by the Ptolemies, or in their time; and a Greek inscription, discovered by Mr.Salt, shows it to have been, in the third century, the capital of the Axumites.
As you can see, you have no legs to stand on for any of your beliefs, and I recommend you take reading classes so you can better understand written English. Aearthrise (talk) 16:44, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your evidence is really poor and you have not grasped the material at all. There is no evidence whatsoever they founded/conquered Adulis and certainly not Axum as Henry Salt claims, there is no evidence for such. Regurgitating or citing old Eurocentric garbage to validate your argument without any coherent archaeological material which completely blows your theory out of the window. We also know the stelae was erected by an Aksumite king or moved from Egypt not by the Plotemies themselves this has already been established. You fear of showing real evidence since you have none. I asked you to show evidence of a conquer of Adulis and you failed to do so, other than you misconstruing the inscription. As for the Architecture you tried to present it as Hellenised Egypt when that architecture precedes it and speaks of the nature of the relationship between the Horn and Egypt way before contact with the Greeks. Stelaes are from Ancient Egypt. Get a grip on history. Your infantile responses show you are incapable of writing or interpreting information so I will seek to change the information on your page and speak to the team with the abundance of evidence I have to refute your points. In all honestly any educated individual will know what you have written is utter rubbish. 87.81.92.46 (talk) 14:42, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Adulis was a center of trade exchange with different parts of the world. Thus, we have ample evidence from past excavations and explorers and recent archaeological researches on the Red Sea Coast and at Adulis. In the 1st C AD, in a book the Periplus of the Eritrean Sea, the Greek-Egyptian merchant and the so-called author Artimedero stated that the Egyptian Pharaoh had been an active trade connection with the southern parts of the Red Sea and especially with Adulis. According to the Periplus, anchorage ships at Adulis had experienced attack from the mainland, confirming that the King of Aksum´s control of the region was not absolute. It was the only legitimate port on the African coast, according to the author of the Periplus, signifying that trade had enjoyed protection under the state or law.
It is indicated that Adulis was a very important commercial port from 1st to 7th Century AD in an article published in 2003 in a book titled “Massawa and the Red Sea”. Rodolof Fattovitch has also stated that Ptolemaic sailors most likely already frequented the site in Hellenistic times (3rd – 1st c BC.) He also explained that the occurrence of Stone Age sites on the coastal plains around the Gulf of Zula suggest that the region had already been inhabited since millennium.
In her report of 2012 excavation Chiara Zazzaro stated that Adulis was the most important port for trade in the northern Horn of Africa during antiquity. It was the port of the urban settlements of the Eritrean and Ethiopian highlands and of the coastal and island people from Somalia to Dahlak. Local products such as ivory, rhinoceros horns, tortoise shells and obsidian were renowned in the whole ancient world from the Mediterranean to the East since the Phoroanoiac period. At that time, the region was known as “Land of Punt”. As a long-lived port, it had been the gateway for people, ideas, goods, and powers that had a major impact on the history of the Eritrean and Ethiopian highlands probably since the 1st millennium BC and onwards. In fact, the rise of the early Eritro-Ethio /-Sabean cults reflects the mutual cultural exchanges that occurred between the opposite Coasts of the Red Sea. The subsequent introduction of Christianity is also a consequence of a long-lasting trade and cultural interaction with the Romans and the Byzantines through the Red Sea, just as the introduction of coinage. The spread of the Islam and of the early Arab people in the Horn also started in the Eritrean coastal and insular regions
No annexation or conquer any any of the works done on the site. Your conduct will be investigated. 87.81.92.46 (talk) 15:52, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
mentioned in the inscription. Had Cosmas had not kept a copy for himself, the whole evidence of the subject under discussion would have completely been lost. So far there is no information whether the copy given to Asbas survives or not. The inscriptions both on the throne and the stela have greatly helped our knowledge about the resources, commercial activities, political situation of the period, the territorial extent of the kingdom, the power of the subjugator who erected this throne, the relationship between the Ptolemy and the Ethiopians, and the sovereignty of the realm. The inscription of Ptolemy III Euergetes recounts that he had subdued the whole region of Asia with the assistance of fleet of Troglodaites and Ethiopian elephants for his war campaign. But there is no information why Ptolemy erected or left this inscribed stela in the Aksumite territory. The inscription of Ptolemy even does not make any mention of Adulis (Fauvelle-Aymar, 2009). No annexation or conquer again. 87.81.92.46 (talk) 16:07, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I never stated they never came into Ethiopian lands, I stated they never annexed any lands there is a difference using the periplus as your source is unfortunate 2A02:C7C:36FF:3600:903C:C0E8:CD4:B522 (talk) 22:32, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Terrible writing based on erroneous information

[edit]

The observations by Bent and Salt to discolate the history has been written about extensively and the individual with a clear agenda should have done their research. They falsely attributed everything to the Egyptians when the architecture was a tradition in the horn as shown by Fattovich. The city was founded by the people themselves and I would suggest the individual does their research not to mention no Theron in Eritrea and Ethiopia, no remains found 2A02:C7C:3617:3200:5F1:A335:3176:487C (talk) 10:04, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

“In his book, Travels to Discover the Source of the Nile, he devoted some pages to the description of the antiquities of Aksum. He mentioned forty obelisks "none of which have any hieroglyphs upon them", discussed Poncet's bolts, and suggested that the three largest stelae were the work of Ptolemy Euergetes. He also illustrated this part with a "geometrical elevation, servilely copied, without shading or perspective, that all kind of readers may understand it ". This illustration is very inaccurate, but does give an impression of the stelae. Bruce also mentioned one hundred and thirty three pedestals with the marks of statues on top; some of these pedestals still remain visible today. Bruce claimed that two of them still bore the statues of "Syrius the Latrator Anubis, or Dog Star". These were `much mutilated, but of a taste easily distinguished to be Egyptian". What these actually were is, alas, now a mystery, but his evidence, with that of Alvares, leads one to think that there must have been many more pedestals or thrones visible than can be seen today. He also saw other pedestals "whereon the figures of the Sphinx had been placed". He commented on the "magnificent flights of steps" of the platform of the former church "probably the remains of a temple built by Ptolemy Euergetes, if not of a time more remote", and dismissed the cathedral as a "mean, small building, very ill kept, and full of pigeons dung". He also added that the king himself told him that the Ark of the Covenant had been destroyed by Gragn with the church, "though pretended falsely to subsist there still". He saw the various pillars and thrones (or at least so one supposes from his description of "three small square inclosures, all of granite, with small octagon pillars in the angles, apparently Egyptian; on the top of which formerly were small
images of the dog-star, probably of metal"). Bruce found, below the coronation stone, another stone with a defaced inscription which, naturally, he announced "may safely be restored" with the Greek letters reading `King Ptolemy Euergetes'. He further alludes to the Mai Shum reservoir, and estimates the town to have amounted in his time to some six hundred houses. Oddly enough, in view of his particular desire to see most of the monuments as Egyptian, Bruce was, while in Tigray, actually presented with a late Egyptian (possibly XXXth Dynasty or Ptolemaic) cippus (a small stele bearing magical texts) of Horus, which he illustrates in two engravings. This is one of the very rare Egyptian or Meroitic objects known from Ethiopia, but a standing figure of the same deity shown on the cippus, Horus-the-Child or Harpokrates, is also known from” his observations were found to be false! 2A02:C7C:3617:3200:5F1:A335:3176:487C (talk) 10:14, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ethiopian_Greeks&oldid=1255326751"