Talk:Erin Swenson

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Erin Swenson has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: April 4, 2024. (Reviewed version).

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A fact from Erin Swenson appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 November 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Erin Swenson was the first mainstream Protestant minister known to have undergone gender transition while in ordained office?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Erin Swenson.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet talk 19:31, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that Erin Swenson was the first mainstream Protestant minister known to have undergone gender transition while still in ordained office? Source: The News and Observer, The Herald-Sun
- Reviewed:

Created by GnocchiFan (talk). Self-nominated at 11:51, 12 November 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Erin Swenson; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

I'll take this. Bremps... 02:23, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Review:
- Article was nominated three days after creation
- Article surpasses 1,500 character requirement
- Sources seem to be alright; good work on use of archived print sources that I never seem to get the hang of
- Earwig states "Violation Unlikely" (35.3% because of some lengthy titles)
- Article is presentable for the Main Page
- Having login trouble accessing sources for hook, will assume good faith
- Hook is very interesting
- No images, so no copyright concerns there
- No QPQ listed. I need to know if you need to do one or if this is one of your first five nominations.
- No other issues
@GnocchiFan I will be approving this DYK nomination once the QPQ situation is cleared up. Bremps... 04:58, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Bremps: Thanks for taking this on, I appreciate it! This is my first DYK nomination so no QPQ needed. – GnocchiFan (talk) 10:41, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - Good work. In that case, I will pass the nomination. Bremps... 15:17, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. Pbritti (talk) 16:54, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Erin Swenson/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: GnocchiFan (talk · contribs) 21:57, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Pbritti (talk · contribs) 17:32, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! I'm Pbritti! I'm an editor who focuses primarily on Christian subjects, with several GAs spanning books, biographies, and a building. This article first caught my eye when it ran as a DYK and I'm more than glad to take on reviewing it for GAN! Pings in replies are encouraged and I welcome you to reach out on my talk page if you need to discuss anything that might not make sense being discussed in the GAN or on the article talk page. Expect a thorough first-pass review to be completed today, with replies to anything you add to come perhaps a tad more slowly through the end of this week. ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:32, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Initial read-through

The following are initial, gut-reaction comments related to me simply reading the article. ~ Pbritti (talk) 18:08, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article appropriately refrains from mentioning Swenson's former name per MOS:DEADNAME as I do not see evidence that she was notable prior to her public transition.
known for her notable role for transgender individuals in the clergy This is very clunky and not explicitly supported in the main body. I suggest that you rewrite to emphasize that she is notable as an early example of an openly transgender cleric.
Presbyterian Church (USA) is linked in the lead sentence, but the specific denomination should be spelled out inline upon first reference in both the lead and main body. There are numerous substantial Presbyterian denominations in the United States and it is fairly important to explicitly distinguish them in the text (rather than relying on Easter egg links).
The lead is too short. I recommend a sentence elaborating on Swenson's fight to retain her status as an ordained minister and another that describes her post-1996 ministry and subsequent retirement.
in Buffalo, New York in A comma should be inserted after New York.
You can link Sexual repression.
Swenson later enrolled Delete later.
Is it reasonably likely that an article could be written on Sigrid Lyons? My limited research has not yielded evidence that her name should stand as a red link (see WP:RED).
What year did the couple marry and divorce?
I think that it would be worthwhile elaborating on the connection Swenson drew between her suicidal thoughts (stemming from her perceived phoniness) and the relief accompanied by the decision to undergo transition surgery. Additionally, the role in Swenson's career in counseling deserves further elaboration. It's a touchy subject–particularly in a BLP–so caution is required. I recommend the 9 July 2000 Atlanta Journal article be used to build out this detail.
I suggest removing the red links from the following names: Center for Personal Growth, Karen Faulk, and Committee on Ministry. You could instead red link Georgia Association for Marriage and Family Therapy.
mainstream Protestant minister This could be adjusted to the more common term Mainline Protestant (and linked as such). This is perhaps the most notable detail in the article and should be highlighted in the lead.
Swenson's father helped pay the $14,000 Use the currency conversion template, as $14,000 in 1995 is a fair bit more in 2024 dollars.
The citation that immediately follows therapist affirmed by the church can be moved to the end of the sentence.
within the Committee A lowercase C is preferable when the full name is not being used.
on October 22, 1996 in I believe a comma is needed after 1996.
It might be worthwhile elaborating on who Don Wade was and why he opposed sustaining Swenson's ordination (or at least what he said his justification was).
Ignoring the horrific title from the LA Times article on the matter, I think it would be worthwhile elaborating on the tennis content, particularly considering the recent political campaigns around such practices.
The final two paragraphs of the Career section are probably worth combining.
If possible, the Retirement section should be expanded (and possibly renamed).

Copyright

Earwig looks good, with a high at 35% due to some longer proper nouns. Not a concern, though I'll make sure to check for any unintended close-paraphrasing in my more thorough review of citations. ~ Pbritti (talk) 19:00, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion area

@GnocchiFan: I've noticed that you've undertaken a number of edits that reflect some of my suggestions. I'll look through them now! ~ Pbritti (talk) 22:58, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, something I noticed: Swenson is described as a doctor in this newly added newstory. I don't see direct mention of this doctorate or who provided it in the article (unless somehow my eyes have missed it a couple times now). I would encourage some sleuthing to figure out where this doctorate is from, what it's in, and when she received it. ~ Pbritti (talk) 23:04, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thumbing through the article a tad more, I really like how the lead shaped up. I think that there are only a couple comments that you haven't addressed. It's probably a big ask, but I would encourage you to scour the Commons to find at least a picture of a building assorted with Swenson. A readily accessible candidate might be Peachtree Presbyterian Church, one of Swenson's former employers. Since she's living, it's not implausible that she would be willing to email a selfie for use in the article (David Bentley Hart did exactly that for his article with this fun pic). Other than that, I'm inclined to approve. ~ Pbritti (talk) 23:18, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much, I appreciate the prompt response here! Thank you for your suggestions in improving the article too, I think I have acted upon all of them but please let me know if I am missing anything!

Unfortunately I couldn't find any images (other than the Peachtree one suggested). I will do a little digging later on and see if I can request an image, but other than that please let me know if there is anything else you would suggest to improve thia article. GnocchiFan (talk) 08:03, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. - I've tried to expand the Retirement section as you can see, but if you can think of a better way to organise the article I would greatly appreciate it! GnocchiFan (talk) 16:01, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.