Talk:Erik Blicker

Possible recreation of the article

Hi MelanieN I've been doing some research on Erik and I wanted to try and save this article. He has a lot of score credits to his name and you seem to be a whiz at saving deletions. How do I change this to a stub? Should I just post my research here or do it in my sandbox? Any help would be greatly appreciated - thanks for your guidance in advance! Tedwillett (talk) 16:56, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

@Tedwillett: Thanks for your note. I took a look at the article's history, and IMO you have your work cut out for you. The article was apparently written by Blicker himself, and it contained NO acceptable references. What we need is third parties writing ABOUT him and his work. Not filmographies, not IMDb, not score credits, not passing mentions - we need material which is significantly about him from independent reliable sources. Before you undertake any actual writing, do you want to show me a few of the sources you would use to create the article, and see if I think they might establish notability for him? You can do that here. --MelanieN (talk) 23:13, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks @MelanieN: I did not know that I couldn't use IMDB, score credits and passing mentions. I saw his name come across a doc about Marion Barry that I saw and then again on The View so I did a little digging and the credits seemed long enough to be "of note" I guess it might not be. Here are some of the articles I dug up beyond IMDB, and wikipedia (since that was the first thing you taught me =) http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-41/1134476- http://www.creativemac.com/article/ESPNs-Sports-Center-Rocks-Out-To-GE-Originals-29292 http://www.sonicscoop.com/2009/06/10/nyc-composers-ge-music-at-silverdocs/ How about his current company site? http://www.flavorlab.com

IMDb is often included in articles, but Wikipedia does not consider it a "reliable source" since anyone can edit it (I could create an IMDb page about myself if I wanted to). By itself IMDb can't be used to show notability, although it usually is accepted to show credits. The harmonycentral thing is a forum, so we can't use that at all; it's just anonymous people posting on a forum, no way to verify anything they say. The creativemac and sonicscoop links could be used, but are not enough by themselves; we would look for at least some recognition from more general or mainstream sources. The View would probably qualify as such a source. His current company site would certainly be included in an article, as an external link and as a source of some information, but it doesn't give any notability. We're going to need either more and deeper coverage about him, or possibly some kind of major award. (Welcome to Wikipedia, which is far more picky than most people realize! But keep trying and learning, I can tell you are going to be a very good editor here.) MelanieN alt (talk) 12:39, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

P.S. Even if there isn't enough sourcing at this time for a standalone article, I'm sure there are articles here on Wikipedia where information about him could be added. MelanieN alt (talk) 12:39, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

P.S. I should add: Yes, Wikipedia does allow stubs, provided the subject is notable (i.e., has significant coverage to show they are notable). But an article like this has a special burden of proof of notability, because the subject has already been discussed by the community and found to be not notable. That discussion is here. So in order to recreate it, the evidence of notability has to be BETTER than what was in the original article. If somebody recreates an article that was deleted (or in this case redirected) as the result of an AfD discussion, it has to be significantly better than the original article -- or else it will get speedy deleted. You can see what the original article looked like for comparison by looking under the "View history" button at the top of the page, and clicking on the version before it was redirected. That version did have some sources, including a filmography -- and in fact one of the discussants did some searching and found additional sources. Still, the consensus at the AfD was that the available sources were not enough. MelanieN alt (talk) 08:44, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Sources Uncovered During Research

Hi MelanieN given your parameters here are a bunch of sources that could help our case to save this article. Here is a film Erik scored http://gone-film.com/?page_id=16 - here are acouple of article where he scored a documentary on MSNBC http://variety.com/2010/tv/reviews/the-mcveigh-tapes-confessions-of-an-american-terrorist-1117942571/ his name was misspelled but we can overlook that, right? http://www.sonicscoop.com/2010/04/28/nyc%E2%80%99s-ge-music-scores-the-mcveigh-tapes-for-msnbc/ - Here are a couple of articles about an HBO documentary he scored http://variety.com/2009/film/reviews/the-nine-lives-of-marion-barry-1200475039/ and http://www.prosoundnetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=34720 - Here is a History channel series that Erik scored http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/ge-covers-roger-daltrey-history-channel/372168 - And here is an article about the ESPN work Erik has done http://www.prosoundnetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=31971 - Here are some articles that mention his current studio, Flavorlabs, http://www.postmagazine.com/Publications/Post-Magazine/2013/January-1-2013/Gadgets-Gear.aspx and if you need the magizine it's here https://mtsierralrc.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/102700-january-2013.pdf - He was a webby award people's choice 2011 winner http://webbyawards.com/winners/2011/online-film-video/general-film/public-service-activism/the-time-to-eliminate-pediatric-aids-is-now-video/ He is credited on Ryan Hobler's some Bob vs. Jack vs. The World http://www.ryanhobler.com/music there's more but let me know if I should keep digging or if I can start writing this out to unlock and post! Tedwillett (talk) 19:44, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Wow, Tedwillett, you have done some serious research! I think you do have some good sources here. The Post Magazine, SonicScoop, Prosound Network and Mixonline sources are all significantly about him and his work; as much as possible use them to verify things in the article.Those appear to be industry sources rather than general-interest media but I think there are enough of them that it isn't a problem. (Do he and Schloss always work as a team?) Gone-film is not really independent; the information was probably supplied by Blicker himself; but it could be used for biographical information (however I suspect the same information is available elsewhere). The webby award is iffy; the award was given to a video, in the category "online film and video: public service & activism", for which he and Schloss produced the music; I'm not sure everyone would accept that it is "his" award. Ryan Hobler may not be notable per Wikipedia standards (no article). The Variety items add nothing except verification that he co-scored the productions. Anyhow, I think you have enough here and above to try to create an improved article. You can use the NYT or IMDb sources for filmography. I would suggest you create it in your sandbox. Check with me when you think it is ready and I will compare it to the earlier article to make sure it is clearly, significantly better and has met the objections raised at the AfD. Then you can copy-paste it here in place of the redirect, and I will put a note here on the talk page explaining why it is not a violation of WP:G4. BTW Wikipedia usually doesn't like articles to be created via copy-paste, but in this case I think it is the best approach since it will preserve the article's history. --MelanieN (talk) 17:52, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! MelanieN Working on this offline. I will toss it in my sandbox (the sandbox looks scary with all those arrows and stuff btw) once I have it fleshed out. Thanks again!Tedwillett (talk) 18:04, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

The only real advantage of the sandbox over offline is that you can add references and formatting easier. --MelanieN (talk) 23:41, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

MelanieN You sure were right about that! Check out my sandbox! Oh and I wasted an hour trying to figure out how wikipedia links differ from external links - single brackets, no problem - pipe vs. no pipe BIG trial and error learning curve. Thanks for all your help and guidance so far! Tedwillett (talk) 07:23, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, it is a learning curve, isn't it? But you are learning fast. Nice job in the sandbox. Some tidying up suggestions: possibly too much detail, you don't need to explain every little detail about everything he worked on, and kind of promotional in places. Too informal (use "He is", not "He's".) A little too much purple prose and interpretation ("The producers were ecstatic" "giving the producer and editors plenty to work with", and the whole final paragraph about being a "hands on artist" ). Don't use external links in the article, such as The Nine Lives of Marion Barry; if the thing doesn't have a Wikipedia article, cite the url as a reference. Check to make sure you have said "Blicker" instead of "Erik". I have put in the section heading and the tool to cite the references where they belong. When you are done I will compare it to the AfD'ed article and see if it is ready for mainspace. --MelanieN (talk) 22:00, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

All right, Ms. Melanie I'm ready for my mainspace, now - right?

Hi again - a little punchy reading and re-reading. I tried to transfer the excitement that I felt finding this stuff back to the people I am quoting. I tried to rearrange the quotes and shorten some stuff that felt too flowery. I'm open to your edits if you are tired of my muddling around but I can also keep at it to learn how to button this up.Tedwillett (talk) 07:00, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind, Miss Desmond, I tidied up your hair a little. I think it is ready although I wish there was a little more to say about The View. What you can do is copy/paste it into the parent page here, Erik Blicker, in place of everything that is there now. Don't include the big "Erik Blicker" at the top of your sandbox version; do include the "reflist" at the bottom of the Erick Blicker section (but not The Rest obviously!). Use an edit summary such as "restoring article after improvement". After you paste it in, add some categories at the bottom under the references, such as [[Category:American audio engineers]], [[Category:American male guitarists]], and [[Category:1964 births]]. I will add a note here on the talk page saying it is significantly different from the AfD'ed article. Good work! --MelanieN (talk) 23:31, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

By the way, I didn't notice this earlier, but section headings within an article or page get double equal signs, not single equal signs. (I just fixed this one.) --MelanieN (talk) 23:35, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks MelanieN - when I copy/paste do I just blow over the redirect? Tedwillett (talk) 23:37, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes, just replace everything on the page with your new content. --MelanieN (talk) 23:44, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

OK, you have your article, and I see it's been "curated". But it still needs categories. And you need to add wikilinks TO the article from other pages in Wikipedia (without them it is an orphan). --MelanieN (talk) 00:51, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I got so excited I exhaled ;-) I added the categories you suggested. I looked at Fred_Armisen's page and added some things I found there. So now I just go into things that Blicker has been involved in and add double brackets around his name? One last thing - can i get the picture off his company website? I'll try some stuff if it's wrong let me know. Sincerely, thanks for all your help. Tedwillett (talk) 06:38, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

If you mean, can you use a picture of him that is on the company website? Basically, no. Wikipedia is very, very sensitive about using material that might be copyrighted, and that includes almost everything that has been published anywhere including on a web page. Uploading images (except for public domain images and photos you took yourself) is tricky and I wouldn't advise you to try it. --MelanieN (talk) 15:16, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Ok - thanks! Tedwillett (talk) 15:32, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

BTW some of us (me, for instance) like to list the articles we have created on our user page. You may want to do the same. A little bragging never hurt anybody. 0;-D --MelanieN (talk) 17:00, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Administrator comment

I have compared the restored version of this page to the version that was redirected as per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Erik Blicker. This version is significantly different and expanded from the earlier version. --MelanieN (talk) 23:33, 18 April 2016 (UTC)