Talk:Erich Traub

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Controversy

Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

By definition, there is very little that is neutral about a former Nazi, especially one who is known to have engaged in bioweapons research with an emphasis on organisms that attack the brain, but I am anxious to hear why some in the Wiki community do not want this well documented historical information about Dr. Traub to appear here. Those who wish to dispute a connection between Plum Island, tick research and borrelia need to provide hard facts that ticks were NOT used as vectors on the island, and/or that safety conditions were in fact documented to be adequate. Statements from several Plum Island employees clearly show that ticks were used in weapons research on the island. Photographs of garbage dumps on the island show clearly unsanitary conditions, reminiscent of recent conditions at the Walter Reed Army Medical facility. Records show that Dr. Traub visited Plum on at least three different occasions and that he was offered the directorship of the facility at least once. Freyfaxi 03:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup request

I came upon this article by chance and am not authoratative on the subject. It appears to be controversial. It has been nominated for deletion, but that itself would appear to be controversial (see comment above from User:Freyfaxi which predates the deletion tag). The nomination for deletion was made by an anonymous user and not completed properly - the link to the discussion goes to an aparrently unrelated page and there appears to be no discussion for the page itself. As I am not otherwise involved I am not attempting to resolve all this, but I have flagged it up as needing doing. Ros0709 06:21, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

References

Hi. I have added references. I invite anyone who disputes this page to cite definitive evidence that Dr. Traub did NOT visit the island at least three times times, as well as providing proof that tick nurseries were NOT kept on the island. This information is an important part of world war two research. Please do not delete this page. Thank you, 69.120.212.35 04:26, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Censorship of Facts-- Indymedia article by Amanda Field

Censorship of Facts re Biosafety, Erich Traub and Lyme Disease Amanda Field 11 May 2007 07:26 GMT

Shortly after WWII, the US government invited Erich Traub, Hitler's top bioweapons expert, to head activities at the shadowy Plum Island Animal Desease Center in Long Island , NY. Serious breaches in biosafety at Plum Island, a clandestine military installation posing as a civilian lab, allowed the escape of foot-and-mouth virus, and may have resulted in the Lyme disease epidemic, and even the release of West Nile fever. When author Michael Carroll tried to illuminate these issues, the full weight of the establishment came down to silence him. Now anyone seeking to raise them on the internet finds themselves subject to harassment and censorship, even at sites like Wikipedia, where right-wingers and government operatives are working to delete all mention of these topics.

When author Michael Carroll his well-researched book "Lab 257" (ISBN 0-06-001141-6) implicating the "civilian" animal diseases lab at Plum Island, Long Island, NY in biowarfare research and serious breaches of biosafety, the establishment immediately went to work to demolish his reputation. Carroll provided evidence linking the lab with the Lyme Disease epidemic, an escape of foot-and-mouth virus, and even West Nile fever. He further revealed that the US had hired Hitler's top bioweapons expert, Dr Erich Traub, and invited him to head the lab. Anyone raising these issues is subjected to orchestrated libel, smears and intimidation in an effort to keep the issues under wraps. The latest battleground is Wikipedia. What should have been the one area where these facts could be posted freely has turned into a battleground in which followers of Rush Limbaugh and anonymous medical personnel are using Wikipedia's editing software to rub out all mention of Erich Traub, the military history of Lyme disease, and related topics. They have tabled both articles for deletion, see: See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Lyme_disease_military_history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Traub

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.120.212.35 (talk) 04:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Problematic nomination for deletion

OK, this confused me at first, but it seems that a new, unregistered user, User:72.89.114.124, copied an AfD tag onto this page from the page Lyme disease military history, thus making it appear that this page (Erich Traub) had been nominated for deletion when, in fact, no discussion page was created (the tag linked to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lyme disease military history). Putting aside issues of POV and verifiability which may need to be addressed on this page, it does seem to be a legitimate topic, and it certainly should not be deleted without a proper discussion. I think the removal of the AfD tag from this page was appropriate, and should not be considered vandalism. -Rustavo^{Talk/Contribs} 16:36, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Major edits overdue

This article mostly comes from one persons interpretation of one source Lab 257 a conjectural book. I am thinking may be best to delete and start over but Traub seems notable so lets try this first. Questions,

Was Traub a Nazi? German and scientist doesn't mean Nazi unless he was a member, was he?
Was Traub "smuggled"?
Is Traub known as Father of plum island to people beside Lab 257? Loeffler-Institut source says Traub came back to Germany 1953 to found the Tuebingen institut and was director until 1959. Plum Island research facility got started from the Agriculture Department in 1954 when Traub wasn't in US any more, right?
Why does it matter what towns are near Plum Island?

There is more, I will have to write later. RetroS1mone talk 23:44, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK more questions

Freyfaxi says Traub died 1988 with Lab 257 as the source. Lab 257 p.11 says Traub died in May 18, 1985. What is the source for 1988?
What does it mean John Loftus exposed Kurt Waldheim as a Nazi? Waldheims membership in a branch of the NSDA party was public record. The conteroversy was what Waldheim knew about mass killings and when and it was exposed by the Austrian media kritics I think. Did John Loftus expose that, and what is the source?
What is the UDSA?
Traub was at Plum Island three times, how is he the Father of Plum Island?
The source says tick research was done at Plum Island. What is the source Traub started the research, where is evidence it was for weaponization?

The evidence is a sensationalist book of conjectures. Lets start editing this. RetroS1mone talk 02:06, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK I edited, seems better to me but so much still from sensationalist books, can't we find better sources on this type. RetroS1mone talk 02:33, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Insel Riems as a "Dual Use" Facility during the Second World War

Like Kurt Blome's cancer research institute in Posen, the State Research Institute at Insel Riems was a dual use facility during the Second World War where at least some biological warfare experiments were conducted. It was founded originally in 1909-10 to study foot-and-mouth disease and by World War II employed about 20 scientists and a staff of about 70-120. From 1919-48, its director was Otto Waldmann. Hanns-Christoph Nagel, a veterinarian and biological warfare expert for the German Army, conducted BW warfare experiments there. Erich Traub was employed at Insel Riems during the war, and more research is necessary on his career during the war and employment by the U.S. government afterwards. More research about Insel Riems and the German BW program is also needed, along with the postwar careers it director Kurt Blome and others employed through projects like Paperclip.

SOURCE: Erhard Geissler, "Conversion of BTW Warfare facilities: Lessons from German History" in Geissler et al (eds) Conversion of Former BTW Facilities. Kluwer Academic Publishers, 1998, pp. 53-66. http://books.google.com/books?id=aUlRmq3VBrEC&pg=PA60&dq=kurt+blome&hl=en&ei=UBh_TPXwIZDksQO5tr31Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFgQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=kurt%20blome&f=false

In July 1948, the British evacuated Erich Traub from Insel Riems as a "high priority Intelligence target" since it was now in the Soviet Zone and they feared that Traub was assisting in their biological warfare program. Traub denied this, however, claiming that his only interest was foot-and-mouth diesase in animals. Here again, more research is necessary on Traub's career during and after the Second World War.

SOURCE: Paul Maddrell, "Operation Matchbox and the Scientific Containment of the USSR", in Peter J. Jackson and Jennifer L. Siegel (eds) Intelligence and Statecraft: The Use and Limits of Intelligence in International Society. Praeger, 2005.http://books.google.com/books?id=I3Q3_Ww-5SMC&pg=PA194&dq=erich+traub&hl=en&ei=DyJ_TPDPI4vEsAOvq_nwCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=erich%20traub&f=false

Traub's scientific interests were varied, and in the 1930s included Lymphocytic choriomenigitis virus. In 1951, he also published a paper on Newcastle virus.

Eich Traub "Studies on the In-Vitro Multiplication of Newcastle Disease Virus in Chickens." Naval Medical Research Institute, 1951. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcmchugh99 (talk • contribs) 04:04, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Michael C. McHugh, PhD--Mcmchugh99 (talk) 04:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nazi Experiments with Viruses on Concentration Camp Inmates

Another sujbect that requires more historical research is Nazi experiments with viruses on concentration camp prisoners.

Dr. Kurt Gutzeit was in charge of hepatitis reserach for the German Army, experimented with hepatitis ("Jaundice Virus") on concentration camp prisoners, as did his colleagues Dr. Arnold Dohmen, Dr. Hans Voegt and Dr. Eugen von Haagen. These experiments were carried out on mnetal patients, Jews, Russian POWs and Gypsies in Sachsenhausen, Auschwitz and other locations. Dohmen and Gutzeit also did experiments on humans with nephritis virus, which was found in mice and rabbits. One question that is still unknown is whether Dohmen, Voegt and Gutzeit were ever employed by Project Paperclip or similar programs after the war, as were Traub, von Haagen and Kurt Blome.

SOURCES: Office of U.S. Chief of Counsel for the American Military Tribunals at Nurember, 1946. http://www.mazal.org/NO-series/NO-0124-000.htm

B. Leyendecker and F. Klapp, "Human Hepatitis Experiments in the Second World War". U.S. Library of Medicine, National Institutes of Health, 1989. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2698560

--Mcmchugh99 (talk) 07:54, 2 September 2010 (UTC) Michael C. McHugh, PhD.[reply]

Cleanup 2

The prose here made no sense bouncing from one subject to the next so I re-orged it chronologically (except for the BW stuff which I put at the end). I think you can actually read this article now --Hutcher (talk) 04:03, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fringe sourcing

This article is extensively sourced to Michael Carroll's conspiracy theorist manifesto "Lab 257". As reported by CNN:

Carroll, an attorney, admitted to The Associated Press that he has no direct evidence of his book's horrific tales, just years of research. "Every investigation is about connecting the dots," he said.

One statement is sourced to The Belarus Secret by John Loftus, which doesn't mention either Plum Island or Erich Traub.

Because of the unreliable sourcing used throughout this article, it's hard to know what is true and not true. ScienceFlyer (talk) 21:59, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Another unreliable source: The book The Nazi Hydra in America by Glen Yeadon also seems to include a re-hash of discredited claims by Michael Carroll. ScienceFlyer (talk) 22:50, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]