Talk:Ergo Proxy/Archive 1

Archive 1

Character Names

Don't create pages for the characters themselves. Confining the characters to a quick summary on Wikipedia should be adequate.Bwabes 07:34, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

They are not new pages for characters but links to philosophers and other cultural references.

My concern is with the characters whose names are not cultural references. A few versions ago they were linked to future articles. BTW, can you sign your comments? Thanks.Bwabes 05:51, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I thought the main character's name is Lir? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.224.47.18 (talk • contribs) 07:17, 21 March 2006 (UTC).

From her ID card in episode 3, her name is Real Mayar. --Zerophyte 00:34, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Episode 7 shows her indentification as RE-L MAYER (at around 4:16 from the start). I don't know if this is an intentional distinction, as I have not seen the rest of the series (or episode) but I felt the fact should be pointed out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.211.204.37 (talk • contribs) 03:50, 12 August 2006 (UTC).

Just FYI, I've seen Jonathan Klein of NGP refer to her as "Re-l" as well [1] (took me a while to dig it back up). What's also not been mentioned actually on the talk page thus far (although it has been mentioned on the article itself in older revisions) is that the official JP site calls her Re-l Mayer as well [2] -- Shiroi Hane 17:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not getting this, maybe there should be a note about her name being Real at the start and then transitioning to Re-l after, I know the site says that too, but when u go back to that scene where you see her name on the screen, it is an 'A,' but it's rubbed out slightly. It is intentional, for what reason, I do not know, as far as I'm concerned, I'm on episode twenty-one.

Reeves 05:25, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

That scene could probably be interpreted any number of ways. However, it's not Wikipedia's place to decide; that's what the official publications are for. And the official pubs we have say "Re-l". —TangentCube /c /t  11:59, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Just speculation, probably right though, has anyone gotten to the end yet? To find out about her name that is.

Reeves 17:10, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I guess her name was Re-L, what a confusing series, just finished it.

69.158.48.147 22:07, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I meant to put it as Reeves, but I forgot to signin.

Reeves 22:08, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

In a subtitled version I've been watching, the name is translated as "Lil," and I was convinced that this was the correct name, as when it is pronounced I distinctly hear the Japanese "i" sound. The name is fully pronounced as "riru" (りる). I haven't bothered to check the scene with her ID, but I thought I'd just add this. After all, it would not be unusual for the Japanese makers of the anime to get an intended English name wrong, especially considering the limitations of Japanese phonology. 69.141.159.252 02:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Ain't Dedalus "she"? O_o —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.27.46.140 (talk • contribs) .

No. —TangentCube /c /t  23:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

In case anyone's interested or missed it in the series, the Re-l/Real scene is in episode 7. It's on the console screen where her fake death certificate was being displayed. Or if you're a bit lazy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Relscreen1.jpg and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Relscreen2.jpg ~ ARENCOR 07:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I have seen the entire serie, but I am dissapointed to find that Wikipedia can not tell what it is truly about. If I am correct, and you may correct me if mistaken; The series is about The world being slowly destroyed. Humans leave this earth in a spaceship and live somewhere else. They create the Proxies, gods, to stay on earth untill it is safe again to live there. Because human kind fear the proxies, they make them so that they will die if they meet sunlight(that is why RE-L 2 dies). Proxy one however, creates a copy of himself out of revenge, that is immune for sunlight.

because the proxies realise they are not wanted by their creators, they destroy their domes. Vincent Law, -Ergo Proxy- created romdeau, but when he found out the truth, he made romdeau in such a way that he would be cast away, and eventually killed(by RE-L and Daedalus' part was to create the Bullets). I want to hear your opinions, because I really want to add that here. (Lordtains (talk) 13:41, 8 January 2008 (UTC))

I share your enthusiasm for this work and I agree with some of your interpretations, though I think this series is best left for people to get what they can get out of it on their own. Simplifying it down to one particular person's ideas about it or even some group, I think, largely defeats the creators' intent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.232.158 (talk) 10:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm wondering why the 'characters' section has left out Raul Creed & Daedalus Yumeno. I would have though they were both key (if not main) characters in this series.--Acid ball (talk) 01:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm erasing the "Pino just like Pinocchio wishes to be a "real child"." part in pino's description as it is painfully erroneous. Cogito virus gives autoreivs free will and self awareness (cogito, ergo sum), though they are limited to their original programming bounds. In the case of pino, she got an innocent, unquestioned, although not fully understood sense of self. If she were asked wether she wanted to be a "real child", she'd answer something on the lines of "what you mean with real? Pino is Pino; if Pino can think Pino is Pino, then Pino is real." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maokun (talk • contribs) 12:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia Links

Please don't remove wikipedia links if an article doesn't exist yet, since it can be filled in later.Bwabes 23:51, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure about that ? Root⁴(one) 06:48, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

List of Ergo Proxy Episodes Page

I think that this page should be deleted since it is completely encapsulated by the regular Ergo Proxy page. Bwabes 07:26, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Personally I think the seperate list is great since it prevents visitors from getting accidental spoilers... Now if only Naruto had had such a thing I wouldn't have been spoiled to the gaiden.

Concerning the spelling of AUTOREIV

We should make an agreement spell it according to what's shown on the anime rather than what the fansubbers spell it as. I'll edit once more to clear the edits I did before but I'll also overwrite all "Autorave"s from before now. I hope that doesn't offend anyone.

The only problem is that this spelling is inaccurate. Bear in mind, official localizations aren't always correct. In this case, many of the names and locations were simply transliterated according to how they sound. This could be the result of a low-budget translation, time constraints, or other concerns. I think it's best to focus on what the names and locations actually portray, and not their misspellings -- that is, considering that many of them are based on real philosophers and historical elements. There's nothing special about the official translation and its choice of spelling, (like a pun or play on words) so I see no reason to keep it intact. 74.242.103.254 05:18, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Inaccurate according to who? You? Me? A fansubber? Can you get a reliable, trusted source to say that? We lend credence to licensed translations and romanizations because the people making those translations are trusted to have experience in the field. We don't rely on what we think something should be read as because exactly what we think something should be interpreted as will vary from person to person — the original research bug. —TangentCube, Dialogues 05:44, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Amy Lee

Would someone put in the trivia that a lot of Evanescence fans think that the main character is based on Amy Lee's image from Fallen? I don't know if this is true, but it has some turth behind it as she does remind you of Amy Lee.--Mudel 22:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I think some mention should be made, she really is the spitting image, she looks identical, even down the the eyebrow shape.comparison

Nice source for your information there (the link is to 4chan). I see what you did there. Also, it's not loading for me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.141.159.252 (talk) 02:50, 22 December 2006 (UTC).

One only needs to look at the cover of Fallen and compare it with Real and see that if there wasn't any intent to design the character from Amy Lee, then it must have been an incredible coincidence.

Though we shouldn't be too surprised, given that drawing on the likeness of real life people is commonly praticed in anime. Banto in Ghost in the Shell was taken off Steven Segal. And in any case Amy Lee's apperance and fashion did work for the look and mood of Re_L in the the anime and really added a lot to my enjoyment of this excellent series.

Anybody can get word from the creators if this was really the case, cos it would be a cool thing to add to the article, and that's not just because I am an Evanescence fan :)

Rexregum 16:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

sigh...i hope no one adds this detail. its been 2 years now. and amy lee only looks like her in one picture, thats about it. no i'm not an evanescence fan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.249.176.77 (talk) 16:55, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Spelling of Romdeau

According to episode 7, the official spelling is "Romdeau". I'm overwriting the "Romdo"'s. --Neith 11:40, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible that the translators for the official English language DVDs made an error in translating the place names? 'Moscow' would make more sense then 'Mosko', just 'Romdeau' would as opposed to 'Romdo'. --67.189.87.225 09:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The translator's word is considered official and the article must reflect that, regardless of fan translations. And perhaps "Mosko" is an intentional parody of Moscow for the purposes of the show. You never know. Axem Titanium 04:05, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say: fucking translators. Fatalis 23:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Lets remember some of these fucking translators of the fansubs volunteered to made it possible for the non Japanese speaker to watch this fine series. I don't understand your point. Root⁴(one) 06:44, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry if it was too offensive, but you should brush up on your reading comprehension, because I wasn't referring to fansubbers. Fatalis 10:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Fansubbers TRANSLATE. That makes them TRANSLATORS. Its not terribly clear which translators you are referring too (fansubbers, commercial (official), translators as a whole?). There could be reasons to be angry at certain fansubber translators as well (I.E. totally botched translations or bad word choice). Even though you were replying to a comment about commercial translators, it doesn't mean you're talking about the same thing. If your definition of reading comprehension includes mind reading, I'm sorry, I've failed.

I'm just curious why one would be angry at the official translators, especially in this instance. Root⁴(one) 14:25, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

What's the point of getting angry just because you misunderstood something? Fatalis 12:17, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Concerning "Mosko" -- it is "Mosque," per [mosque]. 68.209.235.149 22:30, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

You have no proof that that is the intended spelling, other than from amateur translators. —TangentCube, Dialogues 22:40, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Also of interest, it is pronounced in the anime as "Moskova" or very close to that at least once, when he's either there or on his way, which is very similar to the native Russian pronunciation of Moscow. According to ja:モスクワ, the native Russian name is rendered in katakana as マスクヴァー which, in roomaji is Masukuvaa. And other than the pronunciation of the word in the anime, does anything else incline one to believe that it is actually "mosque"? Are there any other references to Islam in the series? I prefer to interpret it as Moscow, bearing in mind that as well, it's a single place in the world, whereas there are many mosques scattered all over the place. /salut D. F. Schmidt (talk) 01:13, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and furthermore, the last several times I've heard it pronounced since then, it's pronounced as though it's spelled (in katakana) "mosukoo" (to be pronounced more or less like "mosko") rather than "moosuku" (which would be "mosk" or "mosku") or "moosuke" (which would be "moské") which it should be if the katakana was rendering "Mosque". "Ko" would not be used to terminate the word with a "k" sound; "ku" would be. D. F. Schmidt (talk) 02:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

良き市民

It would be less clumsy to translate 良き市民 to "model citizen" instead of good citizen. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.218.157.169 (talk • contribs) 08:35, 18 April 2006.

I agree. That's how it was translated in a subbed version I saw. 69.141.159.252 02:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I see it translated as 'fellow citizen' now (in the dvd ?) Solsticedhiver (talk) 12:46, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Regarding List of Ergo Proxy episodes Page

Hi, I would like to know why my entry on the latest episode titles have been deleted, and I myself was blocked. I only just got myself a username, and my IP address was 202.156.6.54. I was blocked by Pathoschild for "abusing of editing privileges". I can confirm that the new episode titles are genuine, and I don't have any intention of ruining the list. Can I please update the list? I'm not sure whether I will get blocked again. Do allow some time to pass so as to confirm the titles are real and not made up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Weils (talk • contribs) 14:09, 27 April 2006 (UTC).

I agree that you entry is legitimate. It is sourced (http://cal.syoboi.jp/tid/772). I think the other editor over-reacted partly because this series has such wacky episode titles that most people find it hard to believe. --GoogleMonkey 18:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Romedeau = Rome 2?

I believe that "Romedeau" actually means Rome 2 in some language. Does anyone have confirmation of this?Bwabes

If you're thinking of french, it would be "deux", not "deau". "D'eau" is french (and Latin) for "That which is of water", such as in "lis D'eau", meaning "Water lilly". However, this doesn't make much sense coupled with "Rome" ^_^ To the best of my knowledge, "Romedeau" is simply a name. --ShakingSpirit 09:03, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

It might mean Rome on Water..it makes sense seeing as the city is paritaly above water....-DarcGarnet —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.222.195.253 (talk • contribs) 23:05, 18 September 2006.

Thanks for the spoilers >: (

There was no spoiler warning before revealing Vincent Law's true identity -- I was just getting really interested in this anime, and someone's laziness or clumziness just spoiled what is probably the biggest secret of the entire series for me. I took the liberty of adding the spoiler tag, a lot of good that it does me now. Thanks a lot, and pay more attention next time >: ( That spoiler was not there before. I have removed it. --GoogleMonkey 23:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• You should note that it is common to have spoilers around here. But the missing tag was really bad. nihil 13:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Serves you right. Reading articles on series you haven't seen is begging for spoilers. Fatalis 23:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Unless you watch the whole series you still don't know what all happens after you left off. I suppose if you read the last chapter of a given book you'd lose all interest even after you already read the first couple. I can tell already that you must be a literature student. /sarcasm – But maybe I'm being too harsh.

As for me, even if I hear or read a "spoiler" it has no effect unless the remark tells me that watching anymore would be a serious waste of time. (Such a waste of time as perhaps watching a movie about Batman that showed him only in that personality and the entire effort of the movie is that various characters -- which are so horribly written that no one cares about them -- are trying to unmask him.) If this knowledge ruins the series for you, you might reconsider quality of life. D. F. Schmidt (talk) 23:37, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Vol. 1 US Release

Does anyone know how many episodes Vol. 1 has?--HiroProtagonist 05:15, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Four. —TangentCube /c /t  07:01, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Relationships

Okay, I've watched the 23 episodes and am confused as to whether there will be more because animes like this usually have 26 episodes. I am also goingto give a *spoiler* warning about what i'm going to say next:

The woman and baby that were killed were Raul's wife and adopted, its very strange that he didn't react at all to this when it happened. Whether his actions later on were a result of this is a possibility, still he almost just brushed it off initially. Going through the series took me about 2 months, and it wasn't until the end when they showed Pino's the surrogate daugther of Raul I realized and skimmed ep1 + 2 again so i might have forgotten some other details. Also, the proxy that escapes in ep1 was supposed to be Monad right? If so I can only speculate she had so little regard for human life because apart of her duty was to lead vincent to his death at the end?? Was that why Vincent was trying to run away from her?? Not understanding japanese and watching that last episode really didn't help much. I'd like to add some of this stuff into the wiki but it is quite unclear, perhaps I should wait for another translation.

--dekka

If you rewatch it, he did react. Its very subtle though. He didnt show his emotion in the most obvious way. You can tell he was in a dazed trance when all that happened. Also in episode 3, you can tell by his reaction at his piano. Also his entourage pointed out a difference in his personality. Monad didnt really care about human life. She was chasing vincent to be with him. You can tell when she approaches him, she had her arms spread as if to hug him. Vincent, did not recognize her when he killed her.

I think you must take into account that all fellow citizens of Romdo control their emotions. Raul, being one of the leaders of this world, is supposed to do so and even more than the others. This could explain that he did not react much at the incident at the mall. Solsticedhiver (talk) 12:44, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Vincent...Valentine?

Both Vincents have red clothing and transform into monsters. --Xumbra 06:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Soundtrack?

Does anybody know of the name of or have the song played in the early pre-production trailer? (This is not Kiri or Paranoid Android) Neurogenesis 01:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, sorry.. But on a related note, about the theme song - Kiri - how does it's lyrics go? I know wikipedia doesn't list lyrics, but I've seen at least three different ways they have been written down, mostly the part which is sung over/under the chorus and towards the end of the song. "Believe in me - Drink the wine - Take my hand - Fill me up" is how I've found it in most sites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petrim (talk • contribs) 18:34, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

The trailer I saw had some remix of Garbage's 'Metal Heart', I hope you are talking about the same - Evanescentpv (talk) 23:11, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Concerning Adding Definitions to World View

I'm watching the series again and taking notes on various subjects. Would it be better to wait until I'm done with my notes to add any information, or should I add what I have as I go along? This is the first time I've ever considered any heavy editing on an article, so please give any advice you might have. Sight is intended 04:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Since you have already seen the series once, I'm not sure that adding some of your notes as you go along is such a bad thing. If you watch the series as a whole, and then have a whole bunch of notes you want to add, well, (hypothetically, because people have been known to get in the way) then you may have to fight a few people to get your notes on the page because it would be a major edit. Minor edits are generally less controversial than major edits and I also feel that you'd probably get more insight in... It wouldn't be an all edits in or or nothing deal, but getting some and loosing some.

The other option I can think of would be to get some other people to collaborate with you to for major edits, and there's various ways to collaborate. A better quality article may result from this, but that does take a lot of work.

Really, I know this is a bit of a non answer, but truly answering it for yourself requires knowing how you and other people feel. Root⁴(one) 16:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

A collaboration would be a good idea. Anyone interested in joining forces to improve the quality of this article to a level that is acceptable? Sight is intended 16:31, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Possibly. I've never collaborated on wikipedia before. I'd be happier if more people showed interest. Even so, I'm not sure how much time I'm willing to devote to it. Root⁴(one) 16:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I think that as long as you've seen the anime, I could simply send you my notes so that you'd have a chance to make any grammatical or factual corrections you see fit. Sight is intended 19:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

List of Ergo Proxy key terms

I was wondering, what's up with the 'key terms' article, it seems pointless and is devoid of any useful infomation. Does anyone know why it is there at all? I sugest giving each term a description of some kind. I would do this, but even though ive watched the first 20 or so episodes, i only recognise about half of those terms.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, i'm kinda new at this. :) Hiro13648 14:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

If the list was fleshed out with descriptions, it may be worth something, but even then I bet it would only stick around because of obscurity; these sorts of articles don't usually survive an Articles for Deletion debate, particluarly because it falls under something Wikipedia is not: a dictionary. I wonder if User:Jack Cox would object to a proposed deletion. —TangentCube, Dialogues 19:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

The key terms list could be changed to somthing like the character list. Rather than giving a description for every term on the list, Just the major stuff could be given one i.e: What a Proxy is or infomation on Romdeau. I was kinda' thinking along the lines of a Glossary, like the one they have at this fansite http://romdeau.hollow-hours.net/about.htm , although this might not be possible because of the the Wikipedia is not a dictionary thing. Or we could Ignore All Rules :p but i'm not too sure about that —Hiro13648 05:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The problem with that is that if we were to define only main terms, they would belong more in the main article than in an offshoot. There is also the problem of how to write it so that it's not too in-universe... —TangentCube, Dialogues 15:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

It shouldn't be that hard to keep it simple. I had a quick go at describing some of the easier terms. ill put a few here. i don't think they are 'in-universe' :

• AutoReiv: Various android's used by human's .

• Entourage AutoReiv : AutoReiv’s designed to help its user in various .

• Companion AutoReiv : AutoReiv’s designed to act as companion’s to humans. Usually created in the image of a human.

• Armed AutoReivs  : Defensive AutoReiv’s ?

• Smile Land: A theme park city created by a Proxy?(cant recall a name) to make everyone smile for an eternity

• Proxy : A strange creature that is apparently neither human nor android. It is insanely strong and has effectively infinite regenerative powers ( I stole this from http://romdeau.hollow-hours.net/about.htm . I reckon it’s a pretty good description and it isn’t ‘in-universe’)

These are kinda rushed, but it shows that this can be done without being 'in-universe'. It really does run the risk of ending up like a dictionary though. Maybe the article should be deleted. -Hiro13648 10:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Series Finale?

Was the 23rd episode the final or are they continuing this series? An end date is listed in the article yet the IMDB does not. -Hoorayt 11:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

IMDB isn't that great of a source for anime information. Yes, the series was 23 episodes long. —TangentCube, Dialogues 14:25, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, I want to mention when will the second season of ergo proxy will start or will there even be a second season. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.92.195.42 (talk • contribs) 23:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

There aren't any plans to continue Ergo Proxy. —TangentCube, Dialogues 01:26, 26 April 2007 (UTC)