Talk:Enda Kenny/Archive 1

Archive 1

Discussion

As of 29 April 2007, his age is still being reported as 55, he turned 56 last week. Age is an automatic fucntion on this page! :confused:

Recent polls (national and local) confirm that the extreme spin of FG about Kenny and the party isn't justified by the evidence. After 2 majo poster campaigns promoting him in 2006 all of the commentary now is how he has failed to present himself as a cerdible alternative Taoiseach. If the FG Press Office would leave the entry alone for a while it might reflect this reality.

Needs more than an image I'm afraid! There's very little in this article about the positive impact Kenny's leadership has had on Fine Gael.Surely some of his policy inititatives could be added, while the article needs headings to divide it up.

This piece has been repeatedly update to give the best light possible on short-term developments. The bottom line is that FG are 2% up in the polls under EK's leadership. THey are more energetic and effective, but the gushing nature of the updates and the consistency of their maintenance suggests that persons associated with his party are seeking to use this entry in an improper way

This page is no less neutral than other political leader's pages. It looks fair to me. Perhaps a little editing could balance it up again. You have to remember this page was once very biased against Kenny.

This article doesn't represent how uncharismatic Kenny is.

-- Kenny's charisma or lack thereof has no place in a Wikipedia article. If you want to cite the 'study' (about which party leaders were more charismatic or approachable) that was done on a sample of about 30 people about a month ago and mentioned on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, by all means do. I'm no FG supporter, but have a scrap of decency. Ghostreveries 14:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Your first sentence is right of course. But as it happens EK was in our town this morning. I met him and he seemed pleasant and personable. But a few weeks ago Bertie was also here; I didn't meet him but people who did said just the same about him! The difficulty is that they all seem to be promising us the same thing - a brighter tomorrow. Millbanks 13:58, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I have a particular interest in cannibalism in the Mayo area and I am looking forward to Mr. Kenny's page becoming un-protected as I will have several contributions to make.

Image/picture

I am slightly surprised that the image of Kenny has been removed. Kenny is the leader of the opposition in Dáil Eireann. That his page doesn't warrent a picture is unusual.User:104066481 18:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Picture added from my own collection. --104066481 (talk) 18:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

The picture with "Honest Leadershiop" should be deleted, that's only a matter of opinion and this is supposed to be a neutral sight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.32.113.146 (talk) 21:06, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

It says "Honest Leadership" not "Honest Leadershiop" (sic)! But you may have a point, perhaps we could erase the text and have a caption competition, funniest one goes in the box, no? I'll replace the image with a cropped version then. Snappy56 (talk) 09:06, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

What point of view?

You don't believe taking on the Irish language fascists was bold, Snap? Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 20:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

What I believe is irrelevant, you describe it as bold, others (the Irish language fascists as you call them) probably saw it as dangerous and stupid, whose point of view is right? Snappy56 (talk) 20:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Bold in the sense it's not every day an Irish politician makes such a proposal, no? Even the ILFs could admit that.

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 21:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

NPOV

This article reads as if it were written by a member of Mr. Kenny's staff or a PR agent. Needs serious work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.186.20.159 (talk) 09:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

93.186.20.159 (talk) 09:14, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Please explain why or what you feel is npov. I've trimmed some fluff, the 2007 general election needs more work. If the article was written by a FGer as you claim, they probably would have left out the bit about the Kenya mugging story. Snappy (talk) 06:43, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Criticism section

I have added a criticism section, which is in line with other political party leaders. Enda Kenny should not be above anyone, and all criticism should be addressed. Dornálaíocht (talk) 00:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I have integrated the criticisms into the main section. I don't see why it should be a separate section, Brian Cowen doesn't have one. Snappy (talk) 16:13, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Brian Cowen does however have a public image section, which is essentially a criticism section. The criticism section should not be diluted and hidden in a myriad of other political issues. It should be self-evident, and categorised. Dornálaíocht (talk) 16:30, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

All politicians in office receive criticism, but I have never seen any wikipedia guidelines that say there should be a criticism section. Can you point them out to me? And to balance are we going to have a Praise section? Snappy (talk) 16:42, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

If there are no guidelines, then why did you remove a perfectly valid criticism section? Why is there a section dedicated to the criticism of Brian Cowen, but Enda Kenny cannot receive a similar section specific to issues surrounding racism and attacks on the Irish language? Dornálaíocht (talk) 16:52, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

So there are no guidelines then, you're just making up your own. I didn't remove any criticism, just some duplication you added - do read the article properly before editing - just the section which I integrated into the article. WP:Trivia says there should be no trivia section because it encourages people to add trivia but trivia is allowed as long as its integrated into the main article. This seems like a good example to follow. Also, articles are supposed to be balanced and neutral, your starting point is to add criticism. Snappy (talk) 17:00, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

But you still have not addressed the fact that Brian Cowen has a public image section, which is essentially a criticism section. Articles are supposed to be balanced and neutral, but the points highlighted in the criticism section were not subjective, they were fact. So I'm not sure how exactly it contradicts being fair and neutral. Dornálaíocht (talk) 10:06, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Criticism comes from the Greek kritikós, "able to discern", which in turn derives from the word krités, meaning a person who offers reasoned judgment or analysis, value judgment, interpretation, or observation. Bearing this in mind, I've no objection if you add a Public Image section to this article, as long as its balanced and neutral. Also having looked at other political figures, the criticism should really be directed at the politician's policies and not the person themself. Snappy (talk) 13:04, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't need a lesson on the meaning of the word criticism, thank you very much. I see that Brian Cowen's public image section has nothing to do with his political career. So when you state balanced and neutral - who is to decide on what is balanced and neutral? And in regards for criticism - since you yourself said that there are no rules in regards to the structure of the criticism section - why do you get to decide on the content that may be inserted? You appear to be making up the rules as you go along. Also, Out of curiosity, which party do you support? If we're going to discuss fair and balanced editing - I think it should be highlighted. Dornálaíocht (talk) 11:23, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

It wasn't a lesson just a statement. Wikipedia editors collectively decide. You're the one making up rules, not me. You can ask me personal questions but you won't get answers. You obviously support a party other than FG since your fourth edit on wikipedia was to add a criticism section to this article. Snappy (talk) 14:41, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't vote for Fine Gael, but that's irrelevant. I also noticed that Mary Lou McDonald has a criticism section. So both Brian Cowen and Mary Lou McDonald have dedicated sections to criticism, but Enda Kenny still doesn't? I'm going to re-add the criticism section, as there is no logical reason not to have one - unless you wish to suppress information. Dornálaíocht (talk) 13:28, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

How dare you accuse me of trying to suppress information? Kindly remain civil. Consider this edit I made to this article - [1]. Maybe you should apologise to me. I have once again re-instated the Vincent Browne comment. Its only your opinion that there should be a criticism section, its only mine that their shouldn't be, so clearly there is no consensus on this issue. Snappy (talk) 15:25, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm accusing based on the facts that you've consistently removed a criticism section on Enda Kenny, of which many politicians have a dedicated criticism section to goes beyond the scope of their political career. I demonstrated that Brian Cowen has a "public image" section, which is essentially a criticism section if you read it. I think demonstrated that Mary Lou McDonald had a criticism section. There is no reason why a criticism section cannot be created to collectively contain criticisms of Enda Kenny. You can be sure that if I removed criticism sections of other politicians - I would be warned. So which is it? Dornálaíocht (talk) 14:45, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

You accusations are baseless. The criticisms are still in the article, just not in a separate section. It reads better and they are in chronological order. Just because some other articles have similar sections, doesn't mean that they should all have them. There are no specific guidelines on this issue. Eamon Gilmore, John Gormley and Micheál Martin don't have criticism sections, so its just as valid to use those articles as templates too. Snappy (talk) 19:11, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

criticism sections are not desirable (on any article), it's better to integrate any criticisms into relevant sections. IRWolfie- (talk) 00:45, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Kerry woman

Is that polite? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 23:49, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Page importance and protection

I suggest that this article have it's importance changed to 'High', and that it be protected from edits for about 1 week to avoid vandalism and/or edit-wars between supporters and detractors Jim no.6 (talk) 14:00, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

• Changed importance to High. Be bold, and all that. Jim no.6 (talk) 14:44, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Edna Kenny

Is this too confusion in the New York Times trivial to mention?

"Enda's manhood called into question". Irish Times. 10 March 2011. Retrieved 10 March 2011.

--BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:01, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

it would be too trivial. IRWolfie- (talk) 19:40, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Sweeping victory

It appears bizarre to refer to Fine Gael's performance as "a sweeping victory" when they did not achieve a majority, the current "decisive" appears a better fit. IRWolfie- (talk) 19:42, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Ainm as Gaeilge

Just watching the edits on this article which centre on the inclusion or not of the Irish language version of Mr Kenny's name, I notice that the Department of the Taoiseach, Houses of the Oireachtas and Irís Oifigúil all use Éanna Ó Coinnigh [2] [3] [4] not Éanna Ó Cionaoith which does seem to be an invention.Lozleader (talk) 22:51, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

In fact I only have to go as far as the front of the phone book to find a list of TDs in the "State Directory" and he is indeed "Ó Coinnigh, Éanna". I notice there is an Enda Kenny who Gaelicises himself as "Éanna Ó Cionaoith", but he is a Roscommon footballer [5]. Perhaps this where the confusion arose? Lozleader (talk) 23:27, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh and there was someone who found the name Éanna Ó Cionaoith on the Scottish Parliament page and thought this was authoratitive. This seems to be it [6]. I would point out the page is in Scottish Gaelic, not Irish. According to that document the President of Ireland is someone called "Màiri NicillÌosa"!!!Lozleader (talk) 23:37, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

It's not allowed per WP:IMOS, - "An Irish version of a person's English-language name may be given in the first sentence of the lead of an article on that person if it is a well-known, commonly-used name for that person. If there is no commonly-used Irish version, it is not appropriate or encyclopaedic to "invent" such names, as this constitutes original research. On the other hand, the mere fact that an Irish name appears in certain sources, such as databases, is not sufficient evidence that it is commonly used." The Oireachtas database use such Irish names for all TDs, but few of them are known as such in the English language. I failed to find any references to Éanna Ó Coinnigh in the English language media, for the Queens or US President Obamas visits. Snappy (talk) 06:34, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough, I see Bertie doesn't get his "Partholon" moniker either :-). And we are missing Éamon Ó Cuív (Irish: Éamonn Ó Caoimh) :-) Lozleader (talk) 09:22, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok hooray, so the form was wrong. The reference to the Scottish Parliament was less about the form but the fact a Gaelic form is used. And yes, it's common practice in Scotland to use the Scottish Gaelic form of Irish surnames because the modern Irish spellings is hard for Scottish Gaels to figure out.

And if you read your beloved IMOS carefully (gah, I'm beginning to hate thise abbreviations flying around like midges these days) it doesn't say that the name has to be used in the English language media, does it? It says you shouldn't just coin a name or pick one out of a names database. The website of the Dáil and the Oireachtas are neither a names database not are they likely to just make it up. So will you stop getting your knickers in a twist over seeing, shock and horror, something that upsets your cozy monolingual world view? Akerbeltz (talk) 11:18, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Eh? I use Irish every day of the week, so I'm not cosily monolingual. However Scottish Gaelic is a completely different language.Lozleader (talk) 13:52, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Akerbeltz, I thought the name descended from Cinaed was extinct in modern Scottish Gaelic, being replaced by the name descended from Cainnech (owing to almost indistinguishable oral forms). Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 17:13, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

This was the consensus agreed after a detailed discussion on IMOS a few months ago, the result was clear that Irish names are not to appear in the lead unless they are commonly known by that name, which applies to most Oireachtas members. The Oireachtas database dutifully translates all members names to Irish which leads to such creations as Pádraig Parthalán Ó hEachthairn. Snappy (talk) 17:34, 27 May 2011 (UTC)