Talk:Elizabeth Hutchinson Jackson

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Yes, by all means do go to that one article, and look at the dead links under surnames. Jackson and White.

I'm not sure what you mean. That article indicates that his Hutchinson grandfather is not known, and it is backed up by Jackson's estate, The Hermitage (see [1] and [2]) and Ancestors of American Presidents by Gary Boyd Roberts, p. 12, the definitive resource on Presidential Ancestry (see [3]). So, unless you can find a reputable genealogical source to counter those two authoritative sources I've just given, please do not re-add unsourced information.--Michael White^T·C 16:36, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I have already been in touch with The Hermitage site. They claim that it looks better, if he is an orphan. His aunts are all known, and so are their kin. This is a fact period. To say that all his aunts, did not know there father and grandfather is a bunch of bull. All of his aunts are listed on the Hermitage site. Where is your link to ((Gary Boyd Roberts))? First your had another source, now you switch to Gary Boyd Roberts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.19.117.40 (talk) 06:58, 27 February 2008 (UTC) The link on Andrew Jacksons aunts is the same as mine only i have added a few dates and names. Where is this chart and page 12, you use as a reference? People should be able to look it up on line. Where is it? Many people wanted to be kin to him((Andrew Jackson)) and have included him in their genalogy charts. This has been done for centuries. Randall O (talk) 08:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC) Randall O

I provided the link to the Gary Boyd Roberts source above. Here it is. A fellow Wikipedia editor looked it up because he owns the book, at an earlier time when I was asking whether Andrew Jackson had royal ancestry. So, it is verified. Roberts is the expert on presidential genealogy. Please provide a reputable genealogical source, or even a source that shows that his aunts claimed Francis Cyrus Hobart Hutchinson was their father. --Michael White^T·C 14:13, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

• Comment You have only given this one writer, there have been over 40 people who have written books on the Presidents families. Randall O (talk) 11:09, 29 February 2008 (UTC) Randall O

Well, Roberts is the preeminent one. Could you actually cite a source? --Michael White^T·C 13:43, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

You're making a number of illogical statements. First, that writer is the preeminent presidential genealogy scholar, and you say "40 people who have written books on the Presidents families," but that doesn't mean 40 people have written books on Andrew Jackson's family that said Elizabeth Hutchinson was Francis Cyrus Hobart Hutchinson's daughter. Second, your explanation of The Hermitage's report is entirely unconvincing. Why would you say they claim it looks better if he is an orphan, when it is undisputed that he was (as his mother died when he was a teenager), while that has absolutely nothing to do with his mother's parentage? Third, your attempt to use Ancestry.com public member trees as a source is laughable. It's just shoddy genealogy; if you provide a reliable source, such statements can be included on Elizabeth's article. --Michael White^T·C 05:31, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

See this page. It has them with a daughter Elizabeth, but born in 1720. It's highly unlikely (but not impossible) that Margaret Lisle had Elizabeth Hutchinson at the age of 47 (because she was actually born in 1737). This indicates to me that the claim that Elizabeth Hutchinson was his daughter is poor genealogical scholarship, and almost certainly false. --Michael White^T·C 05:36, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

More links: [4] [5]. --Michael White^T·C 05:44, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

• Comment Burkes Presidential Families of the United States of America, Burkes Peerage Limited, 1975 Edition. I think i will take there word, for her father being Francis Hutchinson. After all her sister was married to James Crawford, who was the son of Sir John Crawford. 10:46, 3 March 2008 (UTC) Randall O —Preceding unsigned comment added by Randall O (talk • contribs)

There we go :-) . --Michael White^T·C 13:51, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm changing my mind and removing the claim that she is the grandchild of John Hutchinson. A single 1975 source is not enough to overrule two recent authoritative sources, Gary Boyd Roberts and Jackson's estate.--Michael White^T·C 13:07, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Possible "Family of Andrew Jackson" page?

The page Andrew Jackson, Sr. was discussed at WP:Articles for deletion/Andrew Jackson, Sr. and subsequently merged to Andrew Jackson. Several editors, including myself, suggested at AfD that a page called Family of Andrew Jackson or something similar might created. In addition, User:Bigtimepeace has suggested at Talk:Andrew Jackson, Sr. that there are many sources available discussing the senior Jackson that were not noted at the AfD.

I wonder if it is possible to achieve consensus to create such a page by merging Elizabeth Hutchinson Jackson, Rachel Jackson, and material formerly located at Andrew Jackson, Sr. (see this edit)? Cnilep (talk) 20:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for starting this discussion, but I think there are a few issues here. One is that merging Rachel Jackson is really not an acceptable option to my mind. Though she died before her husband took office, she was to be the First Lady of the United States, which to me makes her automatically notable, indeed by a long shot. Beyond that, the "controversy" over her marriage to Jackson was one of the single biggest pieces of political gossip of it's day, and she herself was discussed (in incredibly harsh and likely unfair terms) all over the place, to the point that Jackson blamed negative press for his wife's death. Rachel Jackson should absolutely have her own Wikipedia article.

As to the general idea of a Family of Andrew Jackson article, I'm not sure how we would be defining "family" in this case and that could lead to problems. For example Jackson adopted two children but then served as guardian for a number of others, who may or may not be worth discussing in a "family of" article. The extended family on his wife's side could also bear discussing to the extent that that is possible.

To me a better option, though also not really necessary since I think Jackson's parents should just have their own articles, would be to have one article on both parents, e.g. Andrew Jackson, Sr. and Elizabeth Hutchinson Jackson with their names both redirecting to that. For awhile this was how we handled Barack Obama's grandparents, though now Stanley Armour Dunham and Madelyn Dunham have their own articles. One thing that's certain is that it probably does not make sense to have a full article on Elizabeth Hutchinson Jackson but not on her husband simply because the latter was put up for AfD and the former was not. Some consistency seems required here. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 21:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Merge proposal: Elizabeth Hutchinson Jackson to Andrew Jackson#Early life and career

I have proposed this merge after Andrew Jackson, Sr. was merged into this section. As notability is not inherited, and there is nothing to show that Elizabeth Hutchinson Jackson was notable independently of her son, although she seems to merit a section in this article, looking particularly at her influence on her son. Boleyn (talk) 20:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

See discussion at Talk:Elizabeth Hutchinson Jackson. Cnilep (talk) 16:51, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Apart from the paragraph begining "An indomitable woman...", which is unsourced as well as very confusing (she died of cholera, or else she was hung), there is nothing here that is not already in the Andrew Jackson article. I honestly think it should just become a redirect to Andrew Jackson#Early life and career. If somebody can come up with an encyclopedic and verifiable account of her indomitability, her reddish hair or her death, that could go straight into the Andrew Jackson article, and cut out the middle-man. Scolaire (talk) 10:22, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

In the absence of any further discussion, I have added details of Hutchinson's death to the Andrew Jackson article, along with the Benton Rain Patterson cite. This was not a merge, just an edit. Since there is nothing more of any note in the article that needs to be merged, I am now making this article a redirect as I proposed above. Scolaire (talk) 15:26, 30 March 2010 (UTC)