Talk:Elisa Maria Boglino

Removal of photos (of artwork), is necessary!

One has followed the development of the Danish article.

I hereby support anyone that asks for the English article to be deleted, for the following reasons:
Many or all of the works of art, that the articled shows photos of, might have been the works of Boglino, however many or all of the works (in the photos), do not (at present) have references that indicate that Boglino produced all or most of these works.

It is my understanding that none of the works (in the photos) in the article, are owned by notable institutions.
(It is my understanding that the works (in the photos) is the property of relatives of Boglino, and now they claim that all of the works (in the photos), are works of Boglino.

I am sympathetic in regards to the works (in the photos) in the article. However, my sympathy or any one elses, is not what wikipedia articles need; they need references that back up all claims.

Please someone - remove the photos of the works of art that can not be verified (as a Boglino) for now. Or nominate the article for deletion, if removing the photos, fails.

And yes, I seem to remember that there is at least one adequate reference to a work called "The Good Samaritan": Boglino had one piece by that name, that got some sort of special mention by an Italian art critic, perhaps around year 1928. Fast forward to the period after year 2000: one relative of Boglino owns a painting (that she claims was left after Boglino), and which might fit the description of "A good samaritan", sort of painting. Thereafter one uploads a photo of the painting, to Wikimedia Commons, and claims that it is "The Good Samaritan" painting.

Do I think that this discussion page will find any kind of solution (except perhaps a "laissez-faire sort of solution")? No.
The matter will probably have to be forwarded to Wikipedia:Paintings, or some sort of wiki-arbitration.

Finally, the scope of the problem might be partially illustrated by the following question: How few works of Boglino have notable references with photos etc. of that work? Between 3 and 15 works? 89.8.150.21 (talk) 20:26, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Please remove tag

Please remove the tag (until further notice), "{{Expand Danish|Elisa Maria Boglino|date=January 2021}}".
The Danish article says much more than the references, unfortunately. (Such can happen, when descendants of the namesake of an article, write an article. There seemed to be quite a bit of that going on in the Danish article, many months prior to year 2021.) 89.8.150.21 (talk) 20:49, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Please check "Artedonna"

If anybody , on wikipedia have access to:Ruta, Anna Maria (2012). Artedonna: Cento anni di arte femminile in Sicilia 1850-1950. Palermo. ISBN 9788897298045. please check it up!! From page 163-182 , every word in the danish article is documented and a lot of the pictures used in the article are shown. Elisa Maria Boglino made more than 100 versions of the good Samaritan , this is also in some way mentioned in "Artedonna" .....HNBS (talk) 15:55, 17 February 2021 (UTC) The Oil painting , shown in this article, of The Good Samaritan is the one mentioned by Pippo Rizzo.: (post nr 7)https://www.archiviopipporizzo.it/scritti/. The post is from 1932 , from The Third Exhibition of the Syndicate in Sicily and Palermo, and it is most likely not dated correctly in this collection of his writings.HNBS (talk) 16:53, 17 February 2021 (UTC) And one thing more...look at the signature ....on paintings and drawings. HNBS (talk) 17:43, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

You are bringing up so many different subjects in one thread. This hardly resembles a discussion, one might say. It might resemble a stream-of-consciousness session, on your part.

(It is my claim that you are too close to the subject. Also, you and/or your relatives own paintings by Boglino. Under such circumstances, trying to be neutral on your end, would quite possibly be a strain.) 89.8.149.73 (talk) 19:08, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

An exhibition (with 100 different artists) in Palermo, and info about Boglino in the catalogue being used for a wiki-hagiography?

"Artedonna" was an exposition, that perhaps was not wiki-notable (or maybe remotely wiki-notable)?
The exhibition was in Boglino's hometown, Palermo?
The exhibition was about female artists 1850-1950, but not thruout Italy - only Sicilian female artists?

Anna Maria Ruta? Not everything she writes, demonstrates wiki-notability, one might say.

Boglino had one painting (out of 100 artists exhibited), at the exhibition?

Is the following source, a wiki-notable source?
(If you are a relative of Boglino, then I strongly urge you to let other people answer the question.)

Source in question:
2012: "Womenart",100 years of female art in Sicily 1850-1950", Artedonna, Cento anni d’arte femminile in Sicilia 1850-1950, a cura di Anna Maria Ruta, presso il Reale Albergo delle Povere, Palermo. 89.8.149.73 (talk) 19:01, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Not completely the truth

It was an exhibition of 33 women...not 100, the Catalologue is serious and very big like a book, and in the refs you mention there are 2 paintings by Boglino, one selfportrait and one studio for the "Allinate"......and as I remember there were several paintings by her in that exhibition....as it says: ""The exhibition was buildt by several small "personal exhibitions"HNBS (talk) 19:41, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

If you are a relative of Boglino, then I strongly urge you to let other people be the ones to push agendas and or POV (about the mentioned exhibition catalogue being "serious and very big like a book").

Your words, can easily be taken as non-neutral words from someone who quite possibly has a conflict-of-interest. 89.8.149.73 (talk) 21:34, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Wiki-notability of the artist?

• The Venice Biennale, on two different occasions.
• Perhaps one wiki-notable museum, has one Boligno painting, permanently being exhibited.
• (Many or most of the rest of the exhibitions mentioned, do not seem wiki-notable.) 89.8.149.73 (talk) 21:39, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Little Work

Hi S..H..I have added the exhibitions in 1932 , with some links. I can only say once more: Artedonna is a Catalouge of nearly 400 pages, telling about 100 years of femminine art in Sicily, and especially the life and art of theese 33 women. In the part about Elisa Maria Boglino is shown 32 paintings and drawings, many of them used in the Wikipedia article and (nearly) all about her nearly 100 years long personal life and art is described carefully.I think it is for now the best source and that it is Notable .HNBS (talk) 00:26, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi S..H.. HNBS! The article is quite possibly, a strong candidate for being nominated (by anyone) for deletion.
Your time in the near future, might be best spent by checking and re-checking the "Artedonna" exhibition catalogue, and thereafter finding one work that has a photo in the wiki-article and a photo in "Artedonna". Thereafter I recommend that you write "Artedonna, page number ..." in the byline for that one photo.

(Thank you for having restrained yourself from editing the article, for the last half day! The few edits you did make in the last 12 hours, might not be a problem for now, if each edit has a wiki-notable reference. At least you stayed away from editing about the life of Boglino - you only added info about exhibitions, with some sort of reference.)

If this English article gets deleted in the future, then I have a feeling that the Danish wiki-article and the Italian wiki-article will not get deleted. 89.8.174.11 (talk) 12:41, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi S..H.. HNBS! You seem to describe the "Artedonna" exhibition catalogue as adequate and wiki-notable.

On the other hand, some might describe the catalogue as "hardly better than nothing", written by a curator that is not wiki-notable.

(One problem might be that the alleged Boglini works in the "Artedonne" catalogue, were in the possession of members of your family, when they were photographed. Your family members are non-neutral sources, to define which paintings have been done by Boglino.

Another problem is that the text (in the catalogue), about Bogligno, arguably does not list sources that can cover all the claims. If one says that family members of Boglino, are the sources for all or much of the info about Boglino in the "Artedonna" catalogue, then one might not be able to refute such a statement.) 89.8.174.11 (talk) 13:03, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

About Anna Maria Ruta and Artedonna

What I know and what I think. She is a very old lady , and knows the art and artist of Sicily of that time by heart, life and reading. Probably better than anyone....I think,(this sentence, I know you will hate it).She has actually met and spoken to so many of theese already gone....inclusive Boglino her self and been in her home in Rome. And her books are many and popular.https://www.settimanadelleculture.it/organigramma/anna-maria-ruta-2/, https://www.abebooks.it/ricerca-libro/autore/anna-maria-ruta/. Maybee you think this information is not good...according to wikinotabillity....anyway.. I will do that.....mark the pictures in the article...with a p.number from Artedonna. And if you think its a good idea I can remove the others.....but if you look carefully, you can see her signature on most of them. She changed to Boglino instead of EMB around 1950....and then later changed back again. It is correct that many of theese photos are from private collections in Dk, Italy and Germany, and it has not been easy to fully document paitings in museums and collections, for example the Zartmann museum perhaps has been moved ,and three paintings in a church in Rome were stolen. It is something that still is on its way, coming out of the shadow....maybee.HNBS (talk) 14:36, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

[1] this version of the wiki-article, is possibly the least flawed version yet. 89.8.28.10 (talk) 11:28, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

User:HNBS is hereby urged to let others take over the discussion, in this thread. 89.8.28.10 (talk) 11:32, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Not in the national gallery of Denmark?

Please confirm here that no Boglino works are on permanent display in the national gallery of Denmark. 89.8.28.10 (talk) 11:34, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Dont worry

I would like to answer your question above properly.....but not in public? I will not edit the text...and if you look carefully....I have not done that. I did work with pictures. A little more light on Ruta:http://www.aracneeditrice.it/aracneweb/index.php/autori.html?auth-id=238367. This is from an exhibiton going on right now (has been closed due to Corona but will open again).... maybe it is wrong to look at Sicily as a little nothing island...compared to art?https://traveltherapists.it/novecento-da-pirandello-a-guccione-noto-racconta-un-secolo-di-sicilia/ I think what you have done to the article is fine.....but an important part of the art of Boglino is her drawings: http://www.rosekamp.dk/Weilweb/B.htm#BoglinoElisa. Apropos this:https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30780587747&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-tile13&searchurl=kn%3Dboglino%26sortby%3D17, if you look at this drawing ....notice the signature and the theme, it is a study for the "Allienate" as well as the drawing "women in motion" wich was removed...look at the figure in the background , with her arm lifted.There are many of theese studies, and I think it would be a good idea to leave that one in the article. And from now on silence, from my side :)........I hope and try to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HNBS (talk • contribs) 09:48, 20 February 2021 (UTC) HNBS (talk) 11:36, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I do not agree with your idea. 89.8.89.89 (talk) 21:50, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

The exhibition Artedonna and the catalog which contains information about "The good Samaritan" is from Palermo ...not Napoli.HNBS (talk) 09:55, 25 February 2021 (UTC) (I hope you can remove the link , to the other place in Napoli.)HNBS (talk) 10:13, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

[2] this version of the wiki-article, is possibly the least flawed version yet.

Please consider starting a new thread if you have new important points. (The scope of this thread, is arguably broad enough.) 89.8.54.83 (talk) 09:28, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

The Good Samaritan or Soccorso

I really do not want to rock the boat.....actually I would like it to rock a little less:) I am sorry , you have such a headache about this painting....now I try this way. It speaks from a time long ago. It is from The 3. Exhibition of the Fascist Syndicate 1932.......belle arti di Sicilia.It is in Italien but you see her name....and the name of the artwork "Soccorso" ( check with Enciclopedia delle Donne)which means help or saving....but it is a painting of "The good Samaritan" and if you look into the drawings already uploadet to wikipedia ....you can see 2 other versions of this theme.HNBS (talk) 17:31, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Emporium (periodical) as a source of your's - it might be the most wiki-notable source of your's, yet.

[3] this version of the wiki-article, is possibly the least flawed version yet.

Please consider starting a new thread if you have new important points. (The scope of this thread, is arguably broad enough.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.8.103.249 (talk) 18:40, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Donna E Bimbo

Nobody is claiming , there are severeal "Donna e Bimbos" the painting is also called "Woman and child". Concerning "Soccorso " or "The good Samaritan ".....I am talking of several versions of the theme, Inkdrawings, mixed technique, watercolour,etc..not oilpaintings.HNBS (talk) 14:04, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Non-notable as place to exhibit works of visual art

• Search: "Hågen Muller" galleri. 89.8.16.78 (talk) 11:00, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Added new painting

I have added one new painting and replaced one drawing , which have references to a new book about the the artist. I have not been able to work properly with the gallery as I dont know how to remove the table .The book contains more than 80 illustrations of her works + fotos and examples of works by other artists. The book tells about her whole life , and backs up all claims , which have been removed from this article..HNBS (talk) 21:35, 31 March 2021 (UTC) .

She is not a wiki-notable source. She is not a recognized historian. She is not an expert about painting (even though she does publish stuff, on occasion). 89.8.82.53 (talk) 07:20, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

I am really sorry, you are still so sceptical on Ruta? https://www.settimanadelleculture.it/organigramma/anna-maria-ruta-2/ ,https://www.libertasicilia.it/palermo-si-presenta-domani-il-volume-curato-da-anna-maria-ruta-e-francesco-parisi-aleardo-terzi-un-protagonista-del-liberty/, as you see, she did nearly all the voices in the Godolis Dictionary of Futurism......I do not think a person with little knowledge about art , would be used for such a thing?. I still want to keep my promise not to mix with the text, but I think it is wrong, not to let just a little more facts into the article... anyway no hurry.HNBS (talk) 19:33, 3 April 2021 (UTC)