Talk:Elias

Helios > Elias

Can you cite a source for the Helios > Elias etymology? It's pretty well established that Elias is simply the Greek version of Elijah. The Hebrew suffix -yahu, rendered -iah or -jah in English is consistently replaced with -ias in Greek, as seen in Isaiah/Esaias, Jeremiah/Jeremias, etc. Pterodactyler 17:17, 30 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'd like a source for this too. I didn't add the Helios part. EliasAlucard|Talk 19:43, 30 Aug, 2005 (UTC)

Please be aware, the Greeks long had a civilisation before Elijah, and so the name may have already existed as a pagan name. The prophet Elijah practiced his ministry in Israel during the reigns of King Ahab (874-853 BC). By that stage the Minion civilisation had already come and gone a good 1000 years before. The beginning of the rise of the polis (city-state), is believed to be 900 BC.

The argument that Elias is just a reworded version of Elijah is part truth. I believe both names existed, however the pagan Greek name was christianised and linked to Elijah according to the Old Testament, because of the similarity. To me, it makes perfect sense, given that old pagan names were incorporated into the christian religion, when Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire (of which the Greeks were subjects). Pagan feasts, names, and practices were incorporated into the new religion to ease the transition - and that fact is well documented if you doubt it.

Elijah was linked to the sun, which suggests why Hebrew 'Elijah' was linked to Greek 'Elias:

"Sometimes the sun was associated with immortality by a quirk of early Christian etymology - the prophet Elijah, Elias, who did not die, was linked with the sun, helios, as in the Cemetery of Peter and Marcellinus, where a nimbed sun, representing the prophet, guides a chariot to the heavens." (Source: http://www.pythagorean.org/Renaissance/fried.htm)

The following paragraph, perfectly describes my view on the issue, as I have always known it (source: http://www.ctlibrary.com/9342)

"The Chapel of St. Elias is at the top of one of the highest hills in the area. In pagan times, these spots were reserved for temples to Helios, the sun god; the closer one got to the clouds, the closer one was to his presence. When Greece began to adopt Christian traditions, St. Elias naturally emerged as the completion of this originally pagan idea; his vanishing into the clouds on a chariot of fiery horses made the perfect image of a saint whose province is the sun and sky. It is one of many ways in which the Greeks have reconciled their pagan beliefs with Christian truths, not watering down the Scriptures in any ..."

For anyone visiting Greece, look at the highest peak of any island, or region, and it is ALWAYS "Profitis Elias". Does any other culture do that?

Elias 14:30, 31 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly Elias was later identified with Helios, and the similarity of the two names undoubtedly played a role, but that's not the origin of the name Elias. The name entered the Greek language as a translation of the name Elijah. That it "may have already existed as a pagan name" is pure conjecture unless you can cite evidence. The evidence you've given so far only shows that after Elijah was introduced to the Greeks he was conflated somewhat with Helios. Pterodactyler 16:20, 31 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What Pterodactyler says is true. The Greeks did this with many names. For example, the Aramaic phonetic pronounciation of Jesus' disciples names changed. Anyway, that's all I have to say. EliasAlucard|Talk 18:43, 31 Aug, 2005 (UTC)

Fair enough, point taken. It'd be good if we could add some more information on the page, because it is fairly bland at the moment.Elias 18:34, 31 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Checking other encyclopedias is a good start :) EliasAlucard|Talk 21:30, 31 Aug, 2005 (UTC)

The use of "Elias" as a translation of "Elijah" is not of Christian origin; it goes back to the Septuagint, which was the Greek translation of the Old Testament made by Alexandrian Jews, prior to the birth of Jesus. MishaPan (talk) 18:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In case anyone is reading this thread... please see my recent edits, fully supported with reliable sources. --Macrakis (talk) 22:49, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Elias" cannot be derived from the Greek "Helios" becaise the initial /h/ is missing. More precisely, Ancient Greek: Ἠλίας, romanized: Elias is written with a spiritus lenis, whereas Ancient Greek: Ἥλιος, romanized: Helios is written with a spiritus asper. Andreas ^(T) 20:52, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Persian meaning?

I have been told - my name being "Elias" (read my username backwards...) - that "Elias" is a persian word, meaning something along the lines of "Wisee man". Can anyone verify this? Saile 22:39, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Page not fully showing

I made some edits - mostly adding a blockquote from Fermor's book "Mani" - but it appears that content after this blockquote no longer shows. It's in the actual page if you edit it, so I am thinking it has someting to do with the template perhaps? 58.110.150.171 11:15, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Elias is correct. To say that Elias came from Ἥλιος is silly. It's the kind of paretymology that's quite understandable (even charming) among the folk or in the middle ages, but really indefensible nowadays. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tzetzes (talk • contribs) 03:15, 2 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merger

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Go ahead with merge.. There seems to be consensus for this action. -GTBacchus^(talk) 04:39, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This page is a content fork with Elijah. The material contained here overlaps to a large degree with the chapter Elijah#Prophet saint in that page. There are two ways to go:

Merge and incorporate the material into the Elijah article

or

Restricty the article to the Christian tradition. It that case this shoulc be explained in the lead section, and a reference should be created in the Prophet Saint of the Elijah article. Andreas ^(T) 14:12, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Clearly a content fork. Surely we're not going to start separating all the Hebrew Bible figures into separate Jewish/Christian/Muslim articles unless they simply get too large and unwieldy. --Macrakis (talk) 06:29, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Partial merge of only the info about Elias as a religious figure, including Helios and Mormonism. Leave the intro, infobox and variants as a WP:Anthroponymy page. Merge in the list of people with the name from Elias (disambiguation). Add the list of people called Elijah from Elijah (disambiguation). I would be inclined to keep the surname lists on the same page as the longer given name lists. - – Fayenatic (talk) 07:13, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - but leaving a disamb. page as Fayenatic suggests. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:27, 13 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Elias = Helios

The identification of Elias with Helios seems probalbe, but has to be backed by reliable sources. Notice that Ἥλιος = Helios has a spiritus asper (meaning that the /h/ was pronounced), whereas Ἠλίας = Elias has a spiritus lenis. However, at the time when Christianity arose, the difference in the pronunciation had disappeared. Andreas ^(T) 14:33, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have looked into this a bit -- please see my recent edits to the article. --Macrakis (talk) 06:30, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This piece gives a good explanation on the link: https://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2016/07/greek-folk-traditions-and-prophet-elias.html Elias (talk) 06:13, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Frequent edits removing reference to Elijahu

Over the years of existece of this article, there have been many edits, mostly by anonymous editors, to remove any connection betseen "Elias" anad "Elijah" or "Elijahu". This has been recurrenly done in the previous two months by 108.6.177.184 , 71.183.45.196 , 205.157.206.29 , 74.101.165.59 (the latter starting 7 Mat 2011). These edits are most probably done by editors of Mormon faith. No explanation has ever been given at the discussion page. The distinction of Elias and the prophet Elijah made by mormons is however explained in the Elijah article.

See also my edit at Talk:Elijah. Andreas ^(T) 17:58, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Elias Parish-Alvars (or Parish Alvars)

Hello, i'm trying to add Elias Parish-Alvars to the list but the wiki article says that it can be spelled with or without the hyphen. Should i place it in the A's or in the P's? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.2.192.154 (talk) 22:56, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]