Talk:Eight (song)

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Songs

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles

Image of Suga

I have added an image of Suga, who actually worked on the song but it was reverted. I believe it makes sense and is appropriate to illustrate the person who produced, co-composed, co-wrote and is featured in the song. For instance, see Ilomilo (song), Cruel Summer (Taylor Swift song), Thank U, Next. Also tagging DanielleTH, Alexanderlee and Starlight dreams for their opinions. Thanks. --Ashleyyoursmile (talk) 06:21, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ashleyyoursmile: One of the examples is the page of an album (which needs pictures with details) and two other examples of people not featuring in the music why have Suga's photo if don't have the IU and El Capitxn pics too that have notable roles in creating the music? if don't have everyone who had roles of the same level, better not have any, don't you think? Jennienini (talk)

Funny that you call people with a history of edits turned to BTS (they are certainly fans) to give the opinion that they will certainly agree with you. Please Koavf as an experienced member of wikipedia what do you think of the problem above?Jennienini (talk) 15:37, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jennienini, Thanks for asking my opinion. I agree that having a photo is useful and I also agree that having just one person involved seems to give a kind of undue weight to just one of them. Jennienini is there a reason why you didn't include others who had a hand in creating the music? Jennienini, it seems like El Capitxn is not quite as notable as the other musicians, and neither Commons nor Flickr has a photo of this person. And to you both, let's remember to assume good faith: I think you are both trying to enhance the encyclopedia. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:12, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Koavf Thank you very much for your opinion and help :)Jennienini (talk)

This seems mostly resolved, but since I was pinged I'll happily comment... I have nothing against having a picture of Suga on the page given its relevant, but not including IU would be an issue for me. However, given that both IU and Suga are pictured, I think the current setup is perfectly fine. El Captixn is a collaborator as well and I do think it'd be worthwhile picturing him. El Captaixn's real name is Jang Yi-jeong, a former member of the boy group History, and thus he does have a picture and Commons category. (His name is stated in Korean on his Instagram page). The current image for the group is not actually under CC as it's stolen, but I've found an alternate picture that's actually under CC that I'll upload. Also, for what it's worth, I am a frequent editor of BTS pages as I'm a fan of their work, but I value Wikipedia's integrity and neutrality, and thus wouldn't support giving them undue weight. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 20:39, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Forgot to mention the category is here; I've uploaded a Creative Commons picture of El Captixn. Also, for what it's worth, the content in the caption and the credits is wrong per Melon. I'm going to go ahead and fix it. In terms of the content otherwise, captains should be summaries of related article content, so mentioning that they wrote and produced it is fine, but I don't think mentioning Suga's a BTS member is relevant. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 21:10, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ashleyyoursmile and Jennienini: It seems that the disagreement was not over the presence of the picture but rather the image selection and caption introducing redundancies to the article. I agree with Jennienini that the original caption was insufficient and support the inclusion of IU in the photo. However, I do believe that images should serve to emphasize information rather than remain decorative. Perhaps the caption could be rewritten in relation to the composition and production of the song and emphasize the fact that Suga was specifically chosen as the producer/collaborator due to the fact that he and IU share the same Korean age. Starlight dreams (talk) 20:56, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am actually okay with the pictures of both of them included and I do believe that its better now. I agree that the current caption still has its redundancies and could be rewritten as @DanielleTH: and @Starlight dreams: suggested. Please feel free to make relevant adjustments to the article. Thank you.--Ashleyyoursmile (talk) 04:44, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Producer Credit

Hello, I've noticed that some editors keep changing the producer credit in the infobox and I wanted to get consensus before I reverted the change again. To my knowledge, per Melon the only credited producer for the song is Suga, who is credited in the title of the song. The other notable contributors IU and El Capitxn only have credits for lyrics, arrangement, and composition, which all fall under songwriting. If IU and El Capitxn also contributed to producing the song, they would surely be listed as additional producers in the credits, but it does not appear to be the case. Pinging frequent editors Ashleyyoursmile, Jennienini, and DanielleTH. - Starlight dreams (talk) 19:49, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Arrangement falls under production as well, it's stated in the article you linked. MelOn itself doesn't list anyone as a producer since it divided it into lyrics, composition, and arrangement, unless we count the song title. There's enough instances of non-celebrity musicians opting to not have title credit for me to be unwilling to take it at face value. ("The Middle" comes to mind.) Spotify lists no one as a producer, and Tidal/YouTube Music follows the MelOn method of splitting it up. This Daum article claims that Suga produced it in collaboration with IU through a statement from EDAM Ent. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 21:21, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Following up with some reliable English sources... Teen Vouge divides credits and does not list a producer, The Korea Herald states the song is a co-production but not between whom, and Billboard lists only Suga. In other words: a mess. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 21:31, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Naver Music credits here are same as that of Melon but mentions "co-production" without specifying further. --Ashleyyoursmile (talk) 05:45, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bugs credits only credit Suga as the producer Jennienini (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:53, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bugs is reliable and gets their info from the record label I believe, so I'm personally satisfied with that. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 01:22, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]