Talk:Egregore/Archive 1

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Don't kill it straightaway. Page Egregore does actually contain some useful ideas. Consider merging it with Thought_forms. The content of pages Meme and Memetic_engineering are also highly relevant. Be aware that the whole topic is a contentious one. One person's egregore may be another person's God (or Devil.) -- 10:47, 25 November 2006 Quacksalber

I completely fail to see the reason why this page should be deleted. Perhaps, an explanation is in order why this page is up for deletion? -- 14:25, 27 November 2006 Linden16

Why on earth should the page be deleted? I was looking for some information on the etymology and meaning of the word and found it. Still, I hope the article will be continued and complemented. For example, I think Blavatsky has also used the word.

(This is a new submission... the previous para is unsigned) In the discussion on Thought_form (q.v) I tentatively suggest both it and Egregore are merged and restructured. I also provide a ref to the Farrars [ISBN 0919345921] whose use of the word "thought-form" closely follows Egregore. Quacksalber 00:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I have included a link to a new page Thought-form which I have originated. I am unhappy about having to do this and invite comments. Quacksalber 03:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations! Wikipedia just passed my stock test of a decent occult encyclopedia. The first entry I always look for is "egregore", a term obscure to most newcomers, but well understood by established occultists. I believe Nevill Drury's Dictionary of Mysticism and the Occult has a brief entry on the subject, but this is by far the best explanation I've come across in a reference work.

One query, though: why are all the examples taken from outside of occultism? These could be regarded as egregores, but since they've hardly been created with knowledge or intent, they're pretty second-rate examples. The egregore of a magical group or temple carries the collective wisdom, esoteric knowledge to be unlocked by the group's specific signs and symbols, and the corporate intentions, power and momentum of the group. The examples given are thoughtforms, but hardly great examples of what an egregore is. Fuzzypeg★ 00:43, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

The academic psychology section seems like synthesis to me. It may well be an appropriate discussion in Collective intelligence or a similar article, but it is not appropriate here unless we have a reliable source that discusses these theories specifically in light of the "egregore" concept. Otherwise we're just jamming with our own theories and interpretations. Fuzzypeg★ 00:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Examples section POV

The Examples section seems to be written from the POV that egregores in the occult sense are real, e.g. it boldly states "companies have egregores" as if this is a fact rather than an esoteric belief. If the term is being used in some non-metaphysical sense then this needs to be made clear. Even then, it still seems POV, as the concept is hypothetical not factual. I think the whole section is better off deleted. --Smcg8374 (talk) 13:01, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

it appears the purpose of this section is to legitimize an occult term into mainstream usage - as such I agree it deserves deletion - valkyree 19:22, 21 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Valkyree (talk • contribs)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Egregore/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

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Hi. About Egregore as I see it. I'm not positive as I have only recently moved back to this city and have not yet found my King James Bible, but in 1996-98 I had a lot of problems and a freind of mine asked me to attend one of her, 'Special' church services that Sunday. It was the Penticostal Church Ministered by a Reverend Linklater. I can't get into trouble by using his name can I? I certainly hope not. I attended Church that Sunday with my friend and got a very great opportunity to finally check out a couple of reads or exerpts I had read over various times and places. These ' Collective collaberative thoughts, (Egregore ), to achieve a personal or group corporial need or want, are written in many book that are allegedly non-fiction. I just wish I still had them as they would come in quite handy for actual references. That Sunday service was longer than normal because the Reverand had a Unity Circle, planned at the end of the service and a, Stand And State Your Troubles, Worries, Desires,etc, in front of the whole congregation, at the beginning. I felt quite embarassed but did so anyway. Then the Reverand told us to all say a prayer for me and anyone else that had been brave enough to stand and state what it was they wanted or needed. But he said this AFTER each one of us. He also told us to all keep our minds on ways to help us. At first I thought it was um...c--p. But then half way through, I started feeling tingly and stange all over. I was also starting to feel better about the situation I needed to deal with. The service was done and then we formed a hand holding circle. The Reverend then had each person who stated a need to stand in the middle of the circle one by one. During our time inside the circle, the Reverend then told the congregration of the hand holding circle to focus on the person inside and picture what he prayed for us that went in the cirle. I had never felt such power or unity in my life! It seemed my issue just disappeared. So strange. But I think it was that particular Reverend himself that was able to get us into an Egregore. He was like a little white, " George Jefferson from,' The Jefferson's Series.' That little man had the power within him to have everyone practice the Egregore. I have not been to another Penticostole Church or any other since that time that had the same kind of vibe. I found them all lacking and felt disappointed. But then I remembered reading in school about major world leaders and the Charisma they held within and exuded to the public that made the majority of the public want this person to lead for them but no one was ever quite clear why. An example of this would be our very own late former Prime-Minister, " Pierre Elliot Trudeau." I have even bought Church Rummage Sale books that were about white majick. Some explained that they had covens consisting of a certain number of women only, men only, or mixed, dependent on the common goal. For instance, one of the books was one of those tiny mini mags that use to cost like 60 Cents? I still have it today but unfortunately the cover, ISBN, and reference pages are missing. I bought it that way. And I have read many other similar exerpts from other reading materials such as, The Theologist's Big Book of Demonology. But that is neither here nor there. The point is that they all had pieces of information regarding Egregore practice and purposes. It has been used at least since 2ooo BC. It also has it's Tribal connotations. During my training as a Registered Phyciatric Nurse, it was manditory to study up on, Theology, Christianity, Paganistic Beliefs, In Depth Socialology and Aboriginal Studies. The course ended up being 4 years instead of two, as Jim Mc Ray had been our Health Minister at the time and changed the course to a Bachelor of Science in Mental Health. I had previously had training as a Health Care Attendant, Liscenced Practical Nurse and Registered Practical Nurse and had wanted to expand into the Phycology and Scocialology of it all. Our Aboriginal Studies Course was not just on our Canadian Aboriginal Native Peoples. It was on ALL colours and beliefs of ALL walks of life from just about every country. It was extensive. We even covered Royal Families. Even if most are of no importance to most people these days. Back to the Tribal Connotations. It was explained to us that the traditional, 'Rain Dance,' was Egregore in theory as sll members danced to achieve one common goal. Rain. Totally and completely corporial. I have even seen documentary's on such things as rain dances, though I do not recall them being called Egregoric in nature. The alledged scientists at the sites were puzzled as to how a rain dance could really work. There are even History books of European nature where it seemed all belonging behind the walls of a Castle's villiage miracously keeping those walls that were to protect the Castle and villiage from take over, from obtaining much serious damage and saving themselves. Yet others of the same, even the walls built by the same designer the same way and from the same materials have easily crumbled under enemy attack. This leaves me to wonder if the walls that withstood enemy attack did so by the Castle's army and the people of the villiage were on the same page when trying to protect their homes, families and their King and Queen? As in one COLLECTIVE CONGREGATED THOUGHT of some invisible yet tangible or corporial barrier that helped protect their walls. And maybe the walls that crumbled in enemy hands did not have Egregoric factors due to maybe people of the armies and villiages having been weakened by some plague or lack of faith in their King or Queen or their defenses were down and they were not really thinking about safety at all untill too late. Lastly. This term, 'Egregore,' HAS been used on the news regarding agriculture and the weather effects on it during certain seasons. Coincidence ? Maybe. But it is even in fairy tales of someone or something along with a group of friends or followers have collaborated their thoughts into the same desire to...oh, ' Having a big old mean Ogre meet his death in a certain manner or a non-royal suddenly being proposed to by a prince or widowed king. ' All we have to do is keep our eyes open,our ears open and our minds open to the possabilities that Egregore CAN be seen in ordinary lives in ordinary circumstances. I'll just leave out the cult factors as they kind of speak for themselves.--BluElvinBelle (talk) 23:10, 10 June 2009 (UTC)JMR--BluElvinBelle (talk) 23:10, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 23:10, 10 June 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 14:14, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

pathetic fallacy

Why is there a link the page 'pathetic fallacy' here? There doesn't appear to be a clear connection between the concepts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.140.73.217 (talk) 08:54, 3 March 2017 (UTC)