Talk:Eggs as food/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Refridgeration

My relatives in holland have come over, and do not believe that one must refridgerate eggs. In fact, they left an 18 pack of eggs on the shelf outside the fride for 3 days in 100 degree weather. I threw 'em away. Egg containers in the US are labled "perishable, keep refridgerated, to prevent bacterial contamination keep eggs refridgerated and cook thouroughly" or something like that. Do they say that in the rest of the world, in particular, Holland? Because these guys seemed totally clueless as to that eggs should be refridgerated. 66.41.66.213 18:52, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

No. The weather here is around 30 degree celsius/85 degree farenheit and most people don't keep eggs in the fridge. It's good at room temp. for a couple of weeks, according to the expiry date on the cartons. --165.21.155.17 09:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Difference is in Europe they don't wash the eggs in all countries. The natural 'bloom' of the egg protects the egg somewhat. Still it is better to refrigerate eggs; the egg will appear fresh longer. I've eaten 6 week old eggs in Hong Kong that I shipped over that were fresh.Azskeptic 18:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Even easier to cook eggs

"Hi-tech ink perfects egg boiling" at BBC News. violet/riga (t) 12:16, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Faberge egg not food?

The sententce "The most expensive egg is a Fabergé egg called "Winter" which sold for $5.6 million in 1994." in Trivia is wrong, as it doesnt refer to egg as a food --esad

I fixed that up, without losing the factoids. --Charles Gaudette 21:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Non-bird eggs

Just to know - shouldn't there be at least some small reference to the eating of reptilian eggs, if there are some people/cultures who do that? And if yes, would these eggs be very different, nutritionally? David88 16:19, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Turtle eggs are eaten in some countries; young Mexican men apparently used to eat it as an aphrodisiac[1], and it's also a delicacy in Malaysia, and possibly other places. There should be mention of that in the article. - KingRaptor 06:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

The Question

What about that big question: who decided: "I'm going to eat that thing that just came out of that chicken's butt!" Maybe we should address this question--after all, the milk article has a history, maybe this should too. 68.98.110.110 22:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Chickens have exactly one exit hole, a cloaca. Semen goes in (in some cases). Both waste and eggs come out, though usually not at the same time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AmyBlankenship (talk • contribs) 04:21, 2 January 2007

differentiation

Is there any way by which a fertilized egg can be differentiated from an unfertilized one.nids(♂) 10:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Incubate them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AmyBlankenship (talk • contribs) 04:22, 2 January 2007

Egg color

The statement "Regarding chicken eggs, the color of the egg depends on the color of the bird. According to the Egg Nutrition Center, hens with white feathers and earlobes will lay white eggs, and chickens with red feathers and earlobes will lay brown eggs (see also [1])", while an accurate quote, is false. I have several white Plymouth Rock chickens that, just as the barred (black and white) ones, lay brown eggs. Feather color has nothing to do with egg color. However, in most cases ear lobe color is a very good indicator of what color egg the chicken will lay. I suspect the Egg Nutrition Center writer may have been referring to the Production Red and White Leghorns or Production whites, the breeds most often used in commercial egg production. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AmyBlankenship (talk • contribs) 00:10, 31 December 2006

Fertilization

I am rather surprised to see that this page has no mention that eggs for human consumption are not fertilized. This is a question just posed to me by my six year old son, and is probably a common question. I said it was because there was no rooster, then I came here to verify that fact. I ended up at http://www.hhmi.org/cgi-bin/askascientist/highlight.pl?kw=&file=answers%2Fgeneral%2Fans_023.html.

This is a good point. In doing this, it would probably also be good to mention that while unfertilized are by far the great majority consumed, fertilized eggs are occasionally eaten as well, often as a delicacy (see Balut, for example) -- Foogod 21:17, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

If the great majority of consumed eggs are unfertilized, then why does the article say the opposite? Mig29 01:00, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Fertilized eggs are not a delicacy. They taste and appear exactly like all other eggs. Battery hens have no access to roosters so their eggs are usually not fertilized, but if you're buying directly from a small farmer you're likely buying fertilized eggs. Those eggs will probably taste noticeably better, because of th living conditions and diets of the birds, but not because the eggs are fertile. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AmyBlankenship (talk • contribs) 04:18, 2 January 2007

I have heard that fertilized eggs that have been allowed to grow, then die, and sometimes fermented (useually buried underground I belive). are consitered a delicacy. If the egg is fertilized, then removed from the laying spot (nest or whatever) soon after it is laid then there is no diffrence in apperence or taste. If you buy from a local farmer sometimes you may notice a small blood vein. Some people will not eat eggs that have blood in them.--tash 04:04, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Chemical composition

I couldn't find the chemical composition of the eggshell it would be interesting to know as well since it has been used diluted in vinegar as a hair and nail fortifier. Is it folks lore or does it have a substantial amount of calcium and other useful minerals? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.197.71.189 (talk • contribs) 22:47, 8 June 2006

McGee's On Food and Cooking p 74 says "calcium carbonate and protein", talking about chicken eggs. (Also interestingly, he notes that the shell is "riddled (especially at the blunt end) with some 10,000 pores that add up to a hole about 2 mm in diameter.") There is also outer layer of the shell -- the cuticle -- which McGee describes as being of "proteinaceous" makeup. The cuticle is where the color is, and McGee agrees that it's determined by the chicken's genetics. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 01:41, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

"Highest quality"

Here is the link for the citation about egg protein being of the highest quality - I don't really know how to add it, so here it is for someone more knowledgable: http://www.fao.org/AG/againfo/subjects/en/eggs.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.136.84 (talk • contribs) 14:08, 1 July 2006

I see. I think the term "complete protein foods" as mentioned in the linked page should be used then. I'll make the fix if someone else hasn't already. Thanks! 24.19.184.243 15:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Requested expansion

Someone made a request for an article at Wikipedia:Requested articles for an article that had the following info on eggs: "Looking for nutritional breakdown, i.e., vitamins, fat, minerals, etc" There is no need for a seperate article, so I'm removing the request, but if someone can get this info it would be a benefit to this article. --Icarus ^(Hi!) 06:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Chunks of the article went missing because of a broken tag. There is some info on nutritional value originally/now.--Dodo bird 08:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Disputed that 'egging' is always a nonlethal activity

I honestly think this is misleading. It may actually be nonlethal, but what if egg shell gets in a person's eyes and blinds them? It's certainly not without some dangers.

--HisSpaceResearch 19:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

If you're thinking like that then anything can be lethal. A piece of paper could even be lethal if you get a papercut and bleed to death. Gavins. 15:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

size of double yolk hen's eggs

I'm curious about the statement "Usually a double-yolked egg will be longer and thinner than an ordinary single-yolk egg." In my experience (we had hens growing up), double yolkers were larger and had a lesser eccentricity than normal eggs.--H-ko (Talk) 13:37, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Needed a single egg tonight for a recipe and wanted one that was a good size. I picked the biggest one in my refrigerator; it was more round than the other elongated eggs and turned out to have two yolks. Anecdotal with an 'n' of 1, H-ko, but supports your premise. Drgitlow 03:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Embyros in eggs

Most commercially produced chicken eggs intended for human consumption are unfertilized, since the laying hens are kept without any roosters. Fertile eggs can be purchased and eaten as well, with little nutritional difference. Fertile eggs will not contain a developed embryo, as refrigeration prohibits cellular growth.

I'm confused, which eggs don't have embryos? --Candy-Panda 07:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The unfertilized eggs would not be embryos as they have not received genetic material from the rooster. It would basically be a haploid cell with no chance for the egg to develop into an actual chicken. WLU 16:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Food group

Does anybody agree that the food group eggs are a part of should be stated in the article? It's commonly argued apparently. :P --JordanZed 14:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. What food group are egg in? Think outside the box 09:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Meats and protein. WLU 20:15, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Protein yes. Meats? How is that? Think outside the box 09:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Well I'd say it depends on what food-group system you're using. I've seen some that place them in 'dairy' as 'eggs and dairy'. Personally, I'd put them (with dairy products) in a simple 'protein' category, but that's because I find the whole idea of 'food groups' as opposed to 'nutrient groups' quite strange. Skittle 15:22, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Which system is the most commonly used? I would have gone with protein or maybe 'eggs and dairy'. Think outside the box 11:42, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be most useful and informative for us to say they are a food rich in protein. UK schools seem to give food groups as being "carbohydrates, protein, fibre, etc", the USDA seems to group eggs in with "meat, beans, fish, and nuts". Other people seem to vary. Skittle 15:17, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

US it is meats and beans, Canada it's in meats and alternatives. Seeing as eggs are basically nothing but protein and fat, there's not many places for eggs to go. Given the different definitions that exist across countries, it may actually be an idea to leave it out of the article, or give a different definition for each one. WLU 16:41, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Saying that they are a food rich in protein solves this problem for now, at least until we find a more consistant category. Think outside the box 10:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

cats

I believe the debate between WLU and myself is based on a spelling mistake that I've continually tried to correct. Never in my life have I heard of anyone "egging" a car, yet throwing eggs at cats is very common. Here is one news source I found describing such: http://www.connpost.com/news/ci_3646541

If a source can be providing regarding the egging of cars, it can be included also, but please stop committing vandalism by removing truthful facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.237.103.177 (talk • contribs)

I don't really know what this debate is about but there are several well documented accounts of egging cars in the media. For example: Teen arrested after throwing egg at police car, and eggs thrown at Queen’s car. There is also an episode of the simpsons, Separate Vocations, where Bart and Lisa discuss egging Skinner's car. Think outside the box 09:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard of egging cats being done on a regular basis, while I have heard of egging cars - cars are fixed to houses, while cats are moving targets. I don't see cats/cars as a spelling mistake, I see cats as an error, but if you can find more instances of egging of cats, the it should go in the article, next to cars. But perhaps it should be 'pets' if we can find mentions of dogs as well. Within the context of the article, cars makes more sense to me than cats. WLU 16:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes it did seem strange that you were talking about egging cats. As you say I'm sure there are some cases of that but egging cars is far more common, especally on halloween. Think outside the box 10:28, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I have never heard of egging a cat. what would be the point? there have been a bunch of arrests recently because of teens egging and tping houses. they didnt relize the houses had security cameras. --tash 04:08, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

The whole discussion is somewhat irrelevant now, as an anon IP removed 'and cats' - I'm in favour of leaving it that way as there is no question that houses are egged, and there is no real need for further examples. WLU 15:15, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, egging cars is rather common, and expensive vandalism. If not detected and rinsed-off quickly, the egg will ruin the paint. --Belg4mit 14:28, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

you're wrong. people egg cars, not cats. that's just ridiculous. 67.172.61.222 22:10, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Substitutions

can we add to the substitutions section? Its not very thorough. There are MANY alternatives for eggs in recipes, bananas, applesauce, baking powder, vegetable oil, water. What combinations to use depend on what you need (binding, moisture, etc). I regularly use applesauce instead of eggs because if I buy a dozen eggs I will use one, then get a funny smelling fridge and throw out the other 11. If I buy applesauce I can get the individual serving packs and they keep a LOT longer. I use one individual serving of applesauce per egg in things like brownies and cookies. It usually makes a softer baked goods, but the taste isn't really any different. If you like fudgey brownies its great. --tash 04:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

The article is about eggs though, not baking with eggs. I think what's there is adequate, if we add much more then we really aren't talking about eggs anymore. About the only expansion I think that could be justifiably made is to add your comment on different types of combinations/substitutions depending on what the recipe needs. They may welcome more inforamation over at wikicookbooks, but my feeling is a bunch of extra info on substitution is not appropriate for this page. WLU 16:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

egg age/floating in water

The current version of the article claims that you can tell a rotten egg by putting it in water: if it is old the egg will have more hydrogen sulfide and so will float. Does anyone have a source for that? Harold McGee's book claims that hydrogen sulfide escapes from the shell in storage and so older eggs are actually milder in flavor (pg. 87). The fact that older eggs are more buoyant comes from the fact that the water in eggs slowly evaporates in storage, increasing the size of the air pocket at the end, thus making the egg less dense. (pgs 81-82). I won't change it if someone has a source that claims otherwise, though. digfarenough (talk) 19:28, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I was the one who did the latest change to that section. I'm not particularly attached to it, I was just removing the second-person pronoun. Here's some links [2] [3] but I wouldn't say they're really reliable. What are the chances of someone doing a peer-reviewed article on egg freshness? WLU 21:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Hm, well, the second one cites the same book I did (and all the information is directly from the pages in it that I mentioned). That book actually has quite a few references on eggs. For instance, he cites "Gossett PO and Baker RC. (1981) Prevention of gray-green discoloration in cooked liquid whole eggs. J Food Sci 46:1193-1200." which is related to another claim in the article. You'd be surprised the number of studies done on foods, as all those companies can make a lot of money by better understanding how to keep food fresh :) He also cites a few books like "Microbiology of the Avian Egg", "The Avian Egg: Chemistry and Biology", and "Egg Science and Technology." It's clear that his claims are well-researched, though he doesn't actually include in the chapter footnotes that correspond to the references, so it isn't easy to figure out where he got any specific piece of information. In particular, none of the names of his references particularly look like they dealt only with egg age. This book, by the way, is an amazing reference if you're interested in food, and it's pretty cheap, especially for how big the book is :) digfarenough (talk) 22:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, if the book has references somewhere, even if it is the back of the book, it counts as a reliable source for me! Ultra-orthodox sources are only really needed if the claims are contested, and none of the ones you mention are. I think the oerall book references is sufficient. WLU 00:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Brown eggs

Will somebody start a small section on what the difference is between brown and white chicken eggs? --Sadi Carnot 06:41, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

There's some info under Egg_(food)#Shell_and_its_colour.--Dodo bird 07:31, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

prevalence of debeaking

This page currently states in the Issues in mass production section that "Many hens confined to battery cages, and some raised in cage-free conditions, are debeaked...." The terms "many" and "some" are weasel words that, to the best of my knowledge, grossly understate the prevalence of the practice. My first indication of this came from a rather extensive chart attached to the glass outside of the egg refrigerator area at Rainbow Grocery (www.rainbowgrocery.org), a large health food grocery store in San Francisco, on which they list the conditions under which their egg suppliers' chickens are kept. On that list, only TWO very small farms out of nearly a dozen cage-free chicken farms did not debeak their chickens. (Those eggs, though a little more expensive, were in such high demand that they were usually sold out.) In Southern California, I have yet to find any eggs produced by non-debeaked chickens.

References would obviously be best. Perhaps another contributor has stats on this. Given the present wording, either references should be supplied to support these apparent understatements, or the wording should be revised to "Most hens confined to battery cages and raised in cage-free conditions are debeaked...."

The abuses of agribusiness is a very important subject area to a lot of Wikipedia readers. It's what made me go from vegetarian to vegan, despite how much I love eggs (and cheese!!!).

76.171.32.54 (talk) 08:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi I would like to address the unaccepatble agriculture of checkens and eggs as well. one reader noted that he or she is now vegan despite loving eggs and cheese. I too LOVE EGGS AND CHEESE I have been able to find local farms with free range chickens--really I see them happy and walking about! that sell eggs. I have also been getting raw milk (mostly from cow which I prefer to goat) and raw milk cheese. these places can be found much easier now! I encouarge you to support them so responsible farm practices can thrive in this very tough environment! another advantage! thinks about all the calcium, vitamin D, and protein you will add to your vegan diet!

75.16.128.102 (talk) 14:56, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Gray yolks

Why do yolks turn gray on the outside after they've sat for a while? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.167.222.147 (talk • contribs) 01:41, 5 April 2006

Answer: Oxidation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.168.67.243 (talk • contribs) 18:34, 15 July 2007

Motherearthnews External Link

The External Link "Nutritional value of free range eggs compared with factory eggs" to http://www.motherearthnews.com/eggs/ doesnt work anymore --Janzomaster 12:02, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Preservability

Does anyone have infos on the preservability on eggs? I think it should be added --Janzomaster 12:02, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

YES!! Sorry to get so excited but I've been waiting for an opportunity to talk about this. A while back I asked this question on a message bord: How long can you keep a hard boiled egg in the freezer before it goes off? Needless to say not everybody understood the question, and comments like Goes off, like what - a bomb? an alarm clock? Goes off to college? were frequent. But I digress. Anyway, the most useful comments were:

• Hard-cooked yolks can be frozen to use later for toppings or garnishes. Carefully place the yolks in a single layer in a saucepan and add enough water to come at least 1 inch above the yolks. Cover and quickly bring just to boiling. Remove from the heat and let stand, covered, in the hot water about 15 minutes. Remove with a slotted spoon, drain well and package for freezing.
• This link: Freezing Eggs

And of course some jokers:

• But why would you want to? What's it ever done to you? How would you like to be put in a freezer and see how long it takes you to go off? I'm reporting you to the Society for Horrible Incidents To Eggs, or S.H.I.T.E as it's known, and that's what you'll do if you eat frozen hard boiled eggs.....

Hope that helps! Think outside the box 13:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

During the first fifty years of the 20th Century a common egg preserving techniqe was to place fresh eggs in a Sodium Silicate solution sold under the name "Waterglass". This technique was used by many families sending eggs from home to soldiers (usually fathers, sons and brothers) serving in World War I and II. It is discussed in Food preservation sub-heading in the Sodium Silicate article. The reason of course is that while eggs were readily available from home and farmyard chickens they were an excellent protein supplement that was not easily available to regular soldiers at that time. The best way to get them was have them sent from home. The technique is still in use for family farms when there are surplus eggs that cannot be sold or used immediately. I do not know off-hand what regulation (if any) there is regarding the sale of eggs preserved in this manner.Celsius100 (talk) 04:01, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

The links look good and the info should be on the page, I'll add it if I have time. One suggestion for anyone else adding the info, I'd use the sources at the bottom of the wca.net page provide by TOTB rather than the page itself. WLU 14:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

How about information on irradiating eggs? Is this a commonly done anywhere in the world? -- Guest Edit 14:15 PDT September 15, 2007

Archiving

I archived a bunch of the talk page. WLU 13:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Price

If white eggs are more popular in the USA, why do brown ones cost more there? Do they taste better? Are they more nutritous? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.168.67.243 (talk • contribs) brown laying hens require more feed. Thus they are more expensive. No other differences though.Azskeptic (talk) 14:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

There is no difference in nutrition or flavor between the two (I believe that is mentioned in the article). I've never noticed a price difference between the two, though. If you've seen this, are you sure they were exactly the same? Eggs come in different sizes, grades, with qualifiers such as organic/free range/etc., and may be pasteurized in-shell, all of which will affect the price. digfarenough (talk) 02:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Egg allergy?

In the allergy section it says that one of the most commmon food allergies is eggs. The information is not cited and I'm going to remove it in 3 days, unless someone cites it, because I've never heard of anyone allergic to Eggs.

2stepMW 23:20, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Too tired to do proper editing at the moment, but here is a good link [4] plus there are a fair few others if you do a google search. Egg allergy is one of the main reasons why someone wouldn't have a vaccination from the flu virus in winter - due to its preparation in albumen... I always thought this was common knowledge actually.-Localzuk^(talk) 23:47, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I actually had no clue. Well thats fine, it stays. 2stepMW 13:12, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The link provided states that it's the most common in kids up to three, then fades quickly. I've edited to reflect this. To state that it's the most common in adults would require a different citation. WLU 17:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Issues in Mass Production

Hey, Jwhitfield. Some of the revisions you made to this section are purely POV and should not have been made. Regulation implies mandatory guidelines which producers must obey - such as the Animal Welfare Act, local, state or federal laws. As you say, the United Egg Producers Certified program only has 80% voluntary compliance - that is NOT regulation. Why would you remove a referenced source such as the AVMA from this article? They have far more credibility than a private, voluntary regulation program. I will revert your edits unless you can justify removing documented content with which you did not agree. This is the Issues section of this article, so both sides of the issue should be presented without favoring either. Thanks Bob98133 13:35, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Just to throw in a comment: I've been watching these edits over the past couple days. The involved parties appear to believe strongly in their own views (i.e. some POV-looking things from both sides), though the information that has been added often appears useful and appropriate. Clearly this subject is somewhat controversial, so I suggest making sure that every added comment has a reference and that no referenced claim be removed without discussion here. Perhaps neither side will end up with exactly the content they want, but at least we'll end up with a more factual description of the issues in mass production. digfarenough (talk) 17:30, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

That was how we ended up with a well sourced and informative issues section in the first place - by ensuring all aspects of it had a source. It was a right mess before this idea was introduced, and it now has gone back to being a mess.-Localzuk^(talk) 18:37, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I was probably just stating the obvious. Perhaps we could revert that section to a much older version and put in a comment asking people to discuss new additions on the talk page before making them? Or would that just be making too much work out of something which will probably sort itself out in a short time? digfarenough (talk) 18:49, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

That is what I was thinking of doing. I will go ahead and do it and then new things should be discussed here.-Localzuk^(talk) 19:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I added a short comment to the section about discussing changes here. Hopefully people will see it. digfarenough (talk) 21:03, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for jumping in on this. Sounds like a fair and reasonable approach. Bob98133 21:12, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for upsetting anyone with this information. I also apologize for my not understanding how this system works, I am very new to editing on here. I was attempting to provide an unbiased opinion, althought I am, admittedly, biased on the subject. Some of the information in the current article seems very biased to me and some of it untrue (such as the beak trimming with a saw). I understand that the United Egg Producers is a voluntary organization. What I failed to mention in the article is that a very large percentage of retailers require that eggs be UEP certified. I hesitate to list those retailers here simply because they are not listed on the website and I don't want to break any rules. However, all packages of eggs approved by the UEP are labeled as such. Also, the UEP certified program is carried out and audited on a regular basis by the United States Department of Agriculture. And my biggest reasoning behind listing this information was to inform people that by buying UEP certified eggs, they would know that these eggs were from chickens raised under animal care guidelines. And as far as the deleting of the AVMA reference is concerned, I did not. I actually left the original AVMA reference in there, and referenced more information from the AVMA site as well. And I do agree with the AVMA on its views of induced molting procedures. If the reference was not in the page then I don't understand it. If you will look at my last edit on the page the reference was still included. If you also notice, there is a reference from the Vegetarian Society included in the article, which in my opinion, seems to be to be a very biased source to use in this article. However, I did not delete that information.

In my opinion, this article will never please everyone no matter who writes it. However, I do wish to include some more information about the subject to attempt to provide an unbiased opinion. I know the information from the UEP website is very credible, but I would like to hear your opinions on it. I also would value any help with writing this article. I would like nothing more than for the article to present both sides of the issue fairly.

Thanks, Jwhitfield 18:00, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. It's just that we want to avoid an edit war. Perhaps the easiest way to start improving the article is to add a {{Fact}} tag to any claims that have no reference and that you believe are untrue (like the de-breaking with a saw). If no one adds a reference in a reasonable amount of time, just delete the statement or, better still, replace them with a claim from a reliable source. I think claims that reference United Egg are reasonable. It may be wise to add them as a few sentences in a new paragraph between the two that are already there: a brief mention of UEP and perhaps a short description of any relevant animal care guidelines. By the way, it does appear that you removed the reference to AVMA (you still mentioned it in the text, but you removed the ref tag that linked to the website--two different senses of "reference"). Anyhow, basically: add any claim you want, but be sure the claim comes specifically from a reasonable source (if in doubt, add it I suppose, and let others decide the quality of the source). That's my two cents for the day :) digfarenough (talk) 16:49, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate it. I see what you mean on the AVMA reference. It wasn't my intention to remove the link, sorry about that. I suppose I was being a little long winded about the whole situation as well. I don't know what you think, but perhaps the United Egg Producers could use an entire article on its own. Not sure how to go about setting one of those up though. Thanks for the help. Jwhitfield 18:16, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I just made some edits to the article and noticed an external link that criticised the "Animal Care Certified" logo by the UEP. The link now redirects to eggindustry.com but you can view the old version here. It seems UEP got some flak[5][6] for misleading/false advertising and rebranded Animal Care Certified to UEP certified.[7] It would be worthy of a mention if you decide to start the UEP article. --Dodo bird 19:44, 11 August 2007 (UTC)