Talk:Edward S. Herman

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False Statements from Unreliable Sources

This article probably cannot be salvaged into something credible, with its many false and dubious statements, but can we at least remove those from unreliable sources?

To wit:

Sophal Ear’s master’s thesis, in which he falsely accused Herman of being a Khmer Rouge supporter, does not meet Wikipedia’s reliable source guidelines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_S._Herman#cite_note-Sear-20

Bruce Sharp has zero academic credentials, his Mekong.net is a one-man-show, and is a long way from meeting Wikipedia’s reliable source guidelines. Sharp’s false statements are repeatedly cited in this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_S._Herman#cite_note-19

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_S._Herman#cite_note-16

Those additions were made by the Philip Cross account over a decade ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edward_S._Herman&diff=500626837&oldid=500555827

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edward_S._Herman&diff=500550343&oldid=500532673

Cross has been banned at Wikipedia for Cross’s many violations of Wikipedia’s standards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Philip_Cross#Blocked_indefinitely_(1st_year_AE)

Banned at Wikipedia, Cross has taken to smearing Herman at Wikiquote:

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Edward_S._Herman#Quotes_about_Edward_Herman — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:600:A481:8E20:F1DA:177B:3A5B:7CBE (talk) 15:13, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Who is Bruce Sharp? In a discussion on ZMag related to an excerpt from the source, Chomsky wrote "I know nothing about Bruce Sharp". So, presumably he is not a noted scholar in the field.
The Sophal Ear source appears to be an undergraduate Honours thesis, not a Master's thesis. I could not find advice about the treatment of undergraduate theses but advice at WP:SCHOLARSHIP says "Masters dissertations and theses are considered reliable only if they can be shown to have had significant scholarly influence". Burrobert (talk) 04:06, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At first glance Sophal Ear does not seem to be a good source, although they appear notable enough to have a WP article. Might be worth checking if they published anything subsequently, and whether it has been cited. [Actually, it does appear to have a bit of scholarly attention: https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22sophal+ear%22+herman+cambodia&btnG=
Bruce Sharp, however, is a notable expert. Chomsky not having heard of him is not the final word in these (I don't think Chomsky is actually a subject matter expert on Cambodia.) Sharp is widely cited[1] on exactly this topic, e.g. in the Journal of Southeast Asian Studies,[2][3] in the International Journal of Transitional Justice,[4] in a book published by Brill,[5] and other academic books.[6] In 2003, his site was listed by the University of Wisconsin-Madison Scout Report on reliable internet sources.[7] Specifically in relation to Herman see here: https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22bruce+sharp%22+herman+cambodia&btnG= BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:21, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given these edits were made a decade ago, there is de facto consensus for them and onus is on someone proposing a change to get new consensus, so I don't think the original editor is relevant. If you want to report behaviour by that editor, this isn't the appropriate forum. BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:27, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

After the explanation, we still know little about Bruce Sharp. In April 2022, he wrote that his Mekong site "has been built and maintained mostly at night and in the margins of the everyday life. Over time, the nights have become shorter and the margins have grown smaller. Consequently, the site has been updated only rarely since about 2010. Plans for the future? Nothing apart from stubborn, relentless survival". I have marked the references to him as self-published sources. If he is a notable scholar we should be able to find better sources for his assessments.
Not sure about what to do about Sophal Ear's undergraduate thesis since the policy on academic sources does not go that low. Perhaps the references to his thesis should be marked "better source required". Since he has now moved into the academic field he may have written similar analysis in a form that we accept. Burrobert (talk) 04:41, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think tagging notes 16 and 19 with SPS, as you've done Burrobert, and perhaps a better source tag for note 20, would be a good short-term solution.

From a quick look at Google Scholar, it seems to me that Sharp and Ear's criticisms have solid scholarly secondary sources, so using these might be the best longer-term solution. I'd like to have a better look at the academic reception of Herman's work on this to see what would count as due weight. BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:03, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Economics, books

This article does not cover anything about Herman's career as an economist from 1958 onwards, starting with his collaboration with Chomsky on Vietnam at the end of the 1960s. Did he do nothing notable before working with Chomsky?

The list of books at the bottom was light on bibliographic detail so I started to look at publishers. The second book listed is 1968: Principles And Practices Of Money And Banking, but I can't find details of this anywhere. Is it an error? BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:14, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This source contains some biographical information that we could incorporate into Edward's bio [8]. There is a book called Money and Banking; Analysis and Policy which Edward co-authored with Charles R. Whittlesey and Arthur M. Freedman. It seems to have been originally published in 1948 and the edition with which Edward was involved was published in 1968.[9] [10] Burrobert (talk) 13:12, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]