Talk:Education Act 1944

Confusing information?

The suggestion that the Act "made secondary education free for all pupils" might be confusing. Wasn't this already provided under the 1870 Act? While certain church schools were outside the state provision they were certainly funded by the Rates before 1944.

The statement is essentially correct. The 1870 Act was about elementary education: there were no statutory provisions about secondary ed. Prior to 1944, grammar schools routinely charged for attendance, and Butler's act changed that. Heathorn (talk) 19:56, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Also, says school leaving age suggested to be raised to 16, doesn't the Act of 1944 raise it to 15? This is not stated. 161.73.132.197 (talk) 23:59, 21 October 2009 (UTC) ccf

I have rephrased the section and added a link to the original text. The Act set the leaving age at 15 but included a provision to increase the age to 16, "as soon as the Minister is satisfied that it has become practicable". Road Wizard (talk) 01:16, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, the 1870 Act did not make education free for all, although it did make it universally available. Completely free state education was not a reality until the Free Education Act of 1891. Indeed, it was not compulsory until the Mundella Act of 1880. So it was the combination of these three Acts: 1870, 1880 and 1891, that eventually gave us universal, compulsory and free state education. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Education Monkey (talk • contribs) 09:33, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

The act contains no reference to the transfer age from primary to secondary, nor does it discuss selection at 11, nor does the phrase 'grammar school' appear. Transfer age and whether have selective secondaries were matters for local authorities and autonomous schools. Adamsez (talk) 18:24, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Irrelevant section?

Exactly what is the point of including the info on the American GI bill? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.28.167.153 (talk) 15:34, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Excepted districts

List of excepted districts in 1944. [1] MRSC (talk) 05:10, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality

One of the ground-breaking results of the Act was to educate and mobilise women and the working class. It opened secondary school to girls, and the working class, and as a result, a far higher percentage attended higher education after secondary school. This newly found education increased working class awareness of their disadvantaged social position and created a bitter class division between the working and middle class. Such division was illustrated in the theatrical works of John Osborne in the late 1950s.

This description of the effects of the Act on British society should be rewritten by a knowledgeable person in a neutral style. John.D.Ward (talk) 17:57, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

The quotation offers an element of truth in its general assertion, but is incorrect in its details. For instance, the manual working class attendance at universities rose to only 3% of all students in the 1950s compared to less than 1% prior to World War II. (Source, Floud, Halsey and Martin, Social Class and Educational Opportunity, London, 1956). This is hardly a 'far higher' percentage and is too small a number to justify the claim that it increased broader working class awareness of social divisions. But it is evident that many from the working class who did manage to go to university in the 1950s and 60s had _their own_ class awareness raised (and in the case of Osborne, much bitterness). Heathorn (talk) 20:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Milk Paragraph

A separate act- the 1946 Milk Act- allowed for free school milk. It is irrelevant here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.176.90.93 (talk) 18:10, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

the RS say: "The situation changed with the passing of the Education Act, 1944. In determining the structure of the SMS, the Act made it a duty of LEAs to: (i) provide school meals and milk (the LEA could remit the charge for the meal in cases of hardship)...." Harry d Hendrick (2003). Child Welfare: England 1872-1989. Taylor & Francis. p. 185.Rjensen (talk) 20:58, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

For anyone watching this page ... I think: the IP user above is correct; Rjensen (talk · contribs) is correct; the article is wrong. As RJ says: the 1944 Act "made it a duty of LEAs to: (i) provide school meals and milk", but the 1946 School Milk Act made it free. I'll edit the article to cite RJ's book and another source for the School Milk Act. I'll also redirect School Milk Act 1946 here Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:38, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

There was no 1946 Milk Act - free school milk was introduced by the Provision of Free Milk Regulations 1946, made under Section 49 of the 1944 Act. DuncanHill (talk) 09:24, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Religious Education

This article does not make it very clear how the Act made just one subject compulsory to be taught in schools - Religious Education. Vorbee (talk) 17:54, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. It was after extensive lobbying by the Anglican hierarchy ("the Five Points" in 1941). Although the teaching was the "Agreed Syllabus", a sort of ecumenical successor to the Cowper-Temple Clause in the 1870 Act, to a certain extent Archbishop Temple et al felt that as many of their church schools were being nationalised they could compensate by infiltrating the system from within.Paulturtle (talk) 05:40, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

"Tripartite System"

I have removed the material about the "tripartite system", as this was not in the Act in any way. For more information, including links to resources which may be helpful in improving this article, please see the thread Talk:History of education in England#Butler Act and "tripartite system" - common delusion. DuncanHill (talk) 16:04, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Starting School

At what age did children start school?

I started just shy of turning four (I was born in October). The school I started at had a decades-old old board outside saying "Age 4-14", although by then the school in question had separate prep and secondary buildings on another site.

But the article says kids started at 5.Paulturtle (talk) 05:34, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

@Paulturtle: Compulsory school age started at five - section 35 of the Act said "In this Act the expression " compulsory school age" means any age between five years and fifteen years, and accordingly a person shall be deemed to be of compulsory school age if he has attained the age of five years and has not attained the age of fifteen years and a person shall be deemed to be over compulsory school age as soon as he has attained the age of fifteen years". Under Section 8 LEAs had to have regard to "to the need for securing that provision is made for pupils who have not attained the age of five years by the provision of nursery schools or, where the authority consider the provision of such schools to be inexpedient, by the provision of nursery classes in other schools". DuncanHill (talk) 09:22, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks.Paulturtle (talk) 11:59, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Religious Education as compulsory subject

Should this article not point out that Religious Education was the only compulsory subject to be taught in state schools under this Act? Vorbee (talk) 18:39, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

"School Milk Act 1946" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect School Milk Act 1946. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 14#School Milk Act 1946 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. DuncanHill (talk) 17:05, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

When did the Act come into force?

We are not told this vital information. 86.187.229.88 (talk) 16:10, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Repeals

The act was apparently repealed in stages. It would be very useful to have a section detailing what happened, who decided, when and - ideally - why. 2A02:C7B:11A:8B00:1520:F6DA:7521:7178 (talk) 14:03, 31 August 2024 (UTC)