Talk:Edgar Allan Poe/Archive 1

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Please place the newest entries at the bottom. A talk page is not a blog!

How am I supposed to scroll through this huge amount of clutter then?69.105.108.18 03:50, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

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It would be much more useful for an encyclopedia to have brief articles on the more significant Poe works than to have complete texts. I think that about ALL the works of literature that have been put on wikipedia, so far, but especially once they start taking up multiple pages. Wikipedia may not be paper, but nor is it the sum of all information. --MichaelTinkler.

I don't have an objection if the articles start with a brief title or introduction. You cannot assume every reader knows the work. But if only the work of one author is added to the encyclopedia, then other authors appear to be less important. Is there enough disk space here for all literature in the world?

I agree, Wikipedia is not the place for complete short stories or novels. Make links to Project Gutenberg editions instead. We should have descriptions and criticism of the texts, though. --Pinkunicorn

I deleted a couple of William Shakespeare texts from Wikipedia a little while back for similar reasons and nobody complained then, so I think I'll do the same here and just delete the complete texts; be bold in updating pages and all that. I think that the only time a complete work of literature should be included in Wikipedia is when it's been fully annotated as a sort of Coles Notes, which would actually be useful. --Bryan Derksen

The full text of many of his stories is at WikiSource. We should link to the full source for stories and poems there instead of including the full text of the articles. The same goes for Shakespeare. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:22, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

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Death location

Didn't he die in Baltimore? Danny

I think that's what the article says...user:sjc

It didn't for a while - my fault. Memory playing tricks on me. It's better now. --Camembert

I heard he was buried in Baltimore too. Isn't it that a annoyomous person places a rose on his grave and a bottle of whiskey every year on the anniversary of his death? I visited his burial sight last year and that was what I had heard. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 16:12, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I remeber hearing about that too. Otaku17819:56 5 November 2006

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The Raven widely popular?

Where is this "widely" where The Raven is considered the most famous American poem? I've been lots of places, but never there yet -- where I've been in the U.S., A Visit from St. Nick has it beat hands down, not to mention a couple of Longfellow's and Trees, among others. I'll give you that a lot of people know the word "Nevermore" from it, but not the poem itself, and not more than know "Dasher and Dancer and Prancer and" so on. -- isis 04:31 Nov 4, 2002 (UTC)

Kinda late in responding here, but any appelation of popularity is going to be subjective and biased. Most people I know have heard of and read the poem. Most children here study it in grade school. "A Visit from St. Nick" may be more widely known in some areas and "The Raven" in others. I think it is correct, though, since I've seen many sources which claim it is the best-known American poem. — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:22, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

It's definitely up there among the most famous (especially if one considers critically appreciated poems). Any study of American literature includes the Raven. Heck, it was even in a Simpsons episode.Jztinfinity 16:28, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the Raven is one of English literature's most widely known and beloved poems, beating ,surprisingly, Sahkespeare, Frost and Dickinson. Its funny because Poe, like mostly all great authors, was ignored for most of his life.

Edgar Allan Poe category

I'm not really up-to-date on the current thinking about how categories should work. I'm just curious--what's the thinking behind putting Edgar Allan Poe solely in the category "Edgar Allan Poe" and having all the categories link to the category rather than the article? Is this the way to go with other major authors with a lot of related articles in WP? P.Riis 18:10, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure--I just copied them from the incorrectly titled "Category:Edgar Allen Poe". It makes Edgar Allan Poe a sub-category of all the categories it includes. Linking an article to a category and that category's super-categories is discouraged however, so I removed the ones from the article. — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:22, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

OK, thanks, I get it. There was a pre-existing typo'd category. I'll just sit back and see what other people make of it. (That "Allen" typo gets in everywhere, doesn't it!) P.Riis 20:54, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Notable works section and stubs

I'm really not too crazy about the "Notable Works" section for a couple reasons--first of all, some of the choices seem kind of arbitrary, and secondly, the articles linked out from there aren't on the whole very useful. Many (most) of them are only a sentence or two, and it doesn't look like anyone's jumping to expand them into useful articles.

So how do you deal with a situation like this? I wonder if it might be better to take the very short ones and just make them redirects, then put whatever useful information is in these tiny articles right on the Poe page. The larger ones (say ones that are more than a couple of sentences) we could leave. It just seems that people are adding their favorite Poe story, making a link, then creating a not very useful stub.

For now, I'm just taking out the red links, so people don't feel obligated to create links for each story. P. Riis 00:32, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I used your page as a link to my article on Poe's Ligeia. Hope you don't mind. --S0BeURself 04:27, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

What is this "Selected Poe-related films" section? It looks just like a list of his short stories.. Narcissus 06:29, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

The notable section seems to be added and dropped and reverted on a regular basis. Personally, I think the "Notable Works" section goes against Wikipedia guidelines and intent as it's literally just a bibliography. This would best be handled by a category and some brave soul to add each work as nodes. I'm sure it will be reverted, but it was removed by 163.24.117.209 earlier today, and I reverted all BUT the notable works section. I think films, adaptions and places where Poe appears as a character is appropriate. But to list practically every story he ever wrote is a bit crazy. Just my two cents. --Coplan 21:52, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Whiskey or brandy ?

It's just a detail, but in the "Poe's death" section, it is said "Every year since 1949, a cloaked, unknown admirer has left a birthday rose and a bottle of whiskey on Poe's grave"; while in the "Legacy" section, it is said "It has been reported that an man draped in black with a silver-tipped cane, kneels at the grave for a toast of Martel cognac and leaves the half-full bottle and three red roses". Can anybody tell which is correct ? And shouldn't this be mentionned only once? Dom 14:52, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It's cognac. The account in the "Legacy" section was more accurate, so I just deleted the one in the "Poe's death" section. PRiis 15:01, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Legacy & Lore

An anonymous editor removed the Legacy section in its entirety on 4 March 2005. I have restored the section and renamed it for better description. There is much interesting information within it. If someone thinks it is inappropriate, let's discuss it here. --Blainster 00:05, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The Raven Link

Is there any reason the link to The Raven points to able2know.com, and not the wikisource url for this document?

Mchlax 07:29, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The vast pool of advice

Here are various locations where suggestions have been made to improve this article. The info on Poe's life needs to be expanded, as does info on how his work was perceived in his lifetime and after his death. Thanks in advance if you're going to help out.

• Peer review
• FAC 1
• FAC 2
• My talk

Harro5 (talk · contribs) 07:13, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

More of it

1. Information on his wife needs to be present, because that feeds into his criticism.

His wife was wife in name only. (Go on Google and check) According to the article, she was a "frail thing" and it was only honorable for him to marry her so that he could take care of her. His wife was thirteen when they married. Oh, and there's no proof that that they shared sexual intimacies. And Virginia (supposedly) busted a blood vessel singing. -- Peasantmimiru (Sept. 2005)

1. His criticism needs mentioning. In particular, it is imperative that there be a discussion of the "single effect" theory he had for short stories, and his peculiar understanding of the sublime.
   1. It would be nice if this were placed in the context of continental Romanticism.
   2. It would also be nice if this were contrasted with the other fiction writers of America (Hawthorne, in particular).
2. His poetry needs a big bump. While folks read "The Raven," that's not the poetry that was most praised, nor the poetry he considered his best. In fact, there is reason to suppose that "The Raven" was even a literary joke (although this evidence need not be presented or the case argued).
3. In his fiction writing, there are significant achievements for him that should be played up. The most obvious and glaring one is that he "invented" the detective story ("Gold Bug" and "Murders in the Rue Morgue," as well as "The Purloined Letter"). Further, he developed his own particular style of short story that was distinct from others of the day. Part of this was for commercial reasons, of course.
4. Work in translation: Arguably, Poe is most important because of the incomparable translations of his work into French. In French, Poe is not just good; he's an immortal. Baudelaire deserves a lot of credit for this, and, in turn, the development of late French Romanticism owes a lot to Poe (Rimbaud, e.g.).
5. Copy editing and sentence smoothing/combining.

I wish I could offer to supply all of these wants, but the only thing I can really offer is the last one. Geogre 04:29, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

By the way...Poe considered the Raven to be his best work - heavily detailing it in the Philosophy of Composition. I'll find my source if you would like. I think I might have read it from a piece on Poe written by the well-known critic Harold Bloom. But I do agree that other works should be detailed because he has many famous ones. --Nadsat 05:10, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

He did? Wow. I never would have figured that. It has a Childe Harold quality, I suppose, but I can see signs of parody in it and also had some sources to support me on that. I would like the citation. It's not necessary for the article, since we needn't say best, worst, or other about the poem. It's enough that the poem is terribly popular now. It's just that I have had my quarrels with Harold Bloom before, and I'd be interested to see what on earth he was doing here. (I like arguing against "Shine on, shine on/ Harold Bloom.") At any rate, the article has a lot of needs, and I'm not an Americanist. Geogre 15:45, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

I have a copy of Poe's works in which he states in the preface to Eureka that he considered that to be his best work. So either he changed his opinion at some point, or perhaps he considered the Raven to be his best poem. But the second suggestion is problematic as well, because he called Eureka a "prose poem". --Blainster 18:35, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Cryptography Section

Would anybody object to/support the thought of adding a cryptography section to this page. I know Alexander's Weekly and crytogrpahy is mentioned in the article, but maybe it would be interesting to devote a full section to it. Perhaps that would also help with the layout of the page (so that a paragraph about crytography doesn't just appear randomly in the middle of it all) etc. I'd be happy to do it. Thoughts? --Nadsat 05:04, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

• Sounds good Nadsat, this would be a welcomed addition. Harro5 08:05, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism

Why does the article end abruptly with, "He like gay porn."? Even if it's true, can't it be worded more formally? And must it come out of nowhere without any supporting citation?

Because some 13-year-old who still thinks 'gay' is the funniest word ever invented just discovered the page and had nothing better to do. Just revert edits like that, and don't give them too much acknowledgement; most of them just do it for the attention. --Calair 15:42, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Life Of

The statement "There is also no evidence to why he wrote a poem called "To the river". There is no recording in what the poem means or why he wrote it," in the "life of" section does not belong in its present location and I do not see any place for it in the entire article. It critiques a specific poem with no indication-- or evidence-- of the poem's overall significance. I'm removing it.

Hans Pfaal

Are we sure Hans Pfaal is considered a novel?

Hans Pfall was intended to have been a novel, but the second half was never written. IIRC the first half was not published until after Poe's death. I'm not certain it can be considered a novel either -- its short length alone seems to disqualify it. I went ahead and changed the heading to "Longer Works" to concur with the Wikisource listing, and added "(novel)" after Pym to reflect the difference between the works. ~CS 28 June 2005 19:49 (UTC)

Things that should be added

1.The article, surprisingly, makes no mention at all of Poe's two siblings (a brother and sister I believe) and what his relationship with them was.

There was a sister, Lucy Ann Poe. Mitch 04:14, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

2.A sentence or two should be added dealing with Poe's gambling and financial problems while he was at west point. After all, it was his financial situation which was one of the main causes of the friction with his adoptive father.

3.Much more should be said in the article about Poe's relationship with Virginia, and about how her illness and death influenced the themes in his fiction.

4.There should be a lengthy section dealing with the major themes, both textual and sub-textual, in Poe's fiction.

5.The article should also mention Poe's carrer as a public speaker.

6.And like other users have mentioned, there should be something about how his work was recieved by critics in his own time. Anon

Auden quote

The article's text currently reads, in a quote from W. H. Auden: "His portraits of abnormal or self-destructive states contributed much to Dostoyevsky, his ratiocinatin hero is the ancestor of Sherlock Holmes and his many successors, his tales of the future lead to H. G. Wells, his adventure stories to Jules Verne and Robert Louis Stevenson." Could someone please clarify what "ratiocinatin" is supposed to be? -208.20.220.69 21:17, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

The word is a derivative of "ratiocination ." Poe used (coined?) the word to describe his detective stories as "tales of ratiocination." I believe the spelling change is Auden's attempt to turn the word into an adjective. (That would more properly be "ratiocinative") Someone with the original source (or the Poe Encyclopedia, as cited in the article) might want to check to be certain that this is indeed the case, and it is not a typo. ~CS 02:22, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

It was a typo, and it was my fault because I typed the word. It should be "ratiocinating" Someone else corrected it. My bad.

Note also the citation mentions Auden's "recent" revitalisation of interest in Poe. Auden died in 1973.

Note on Auden quote. Sherlock Holmes was created to rival Poe's character Dupin. Dupin used his creative sense of discovery and Holmes happened to merely be a deductive fool, whose mysteries always happened to work out. This was the intention of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. nemesis1981

Sgt. Pepper Cover

I notice that Harro5 reverted a recent anonymous edit pertaining to Poe's presense on the cover of the Beatle's album Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. Harro attributes this to vandalism -- which I'm afraid is an error. Poe is there: top row, eighth from the right. I have taken the liberty of re-insterting the line, but I have corrected what I believe was probably of more concern to Harro5: The anonymous poster inserted this line into a paragraph about serious musical inturprurations of Poe's work. Instead, I have placed it at the bottom of the "Legacy and Lore" section, where more frivolous Pop-culture Poe references reside. This struck me as a vastly more apporpriate place. ~CS 19:34, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I reverted the reference as it just seemed too poorly worded and placed to be true. Thanks for clarifying and improving the reference. Harro5 21:57, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Legacy and Lore Section

Since it was already pretty much divided according to genre, I gave each genre a subsection heading. Hopefully that will help some with the formatting issues. There's still the problem that the paragraphs are too short--someone with greater knowledge of these matters than my own could expand them. They're based on Poe Encyclopedia entries, which are quite short themselves. Wje 23:08, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Lou Reed

I question the addition of Lou Reed's name to the Music subsection of the Legacy and Lore section. The Legacy and Lore section is supposed to be for artists that were directly influenced by Poe, and the influence of Poe can be seen in their works. Though Lou Reed did have one album based on Poe's works, I haven't noticed a profound Poe influence on the body of his works, like one might see with the other artists named. If I'm wrong, let me know. Wje 01:12, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Was it an entire album based on Poe's work? That seems fairly notable, even if most of Reed's work wasn't directly inspired by Poe Pnkrockr 16:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Death

For some reason or another, someone wrote "i laugh at you" under the heading for Poe's death. I don't know if this has any significance or if it was just someone fooling around... Either way, someone should look into fixing it. If there is some significance, then the reason should be noted. -Anonymous User

I deleted it. Looks like junk to me. If some Poe reference, can be reposted with reference cited. —Gaff ^ταλκ 03:30, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree it looks like junk. Must have been vandalism that snuck in. --Syrthiss 12:54, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes it just looks like vandalism. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 15:04, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Ok thanks, just needed some clarification -Anonymous User

Hmm, "he really didnt like it" ???? Would someone like to expand upon that? S.A. 2/06/2006

Baudelaire

Someone changed the referrence to plagiarism in Baudelaire's Fleur du Mal to "inspired him". If you read Fleur du Mal, you'll see that Baudelaire really does include Poe in a list of authors whom he claimed to have plagiarized in the book. Though plagiarism often has negative connotations, I think we should go by Baudelaire's own words here--if he calls it plagiarism, then that's what we should call it. I changed it back. Wje 18:53, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but in the edition I have, Baudelaire says no such thing. The only preface I have found is a poem that says nothing about Poe. Could you give me your source, please? I'm not saying that it's impossible, but I have also read accounts where Baudelaire refutes criticism that says he did. On this web site, for instance ([1])

"The influence that Edgar Allan Poe had on Charles Baudelaire can be easily witnessed in this collection of poems, the largest which Baudelaire produced. Baudelaire admitted that Poe had a significant impact upon his writings, but he did not agree with the accusation by fellow countrymen that he plagiarized Poe's works (Hyslop 25). As Baudelaire exclaimed when charged with imitating Poe, "Do you know why, with such infinite patience, I translated Poe? It was because he was like me! The first time I ever opened a book by him and discovered, with rapture and awe, not only subjects which I had dreamt, but whole phrases which I'd conceived, written by him twenty years before" (Starkie 218)." Lesgles 05:31, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I notice, Wje, that you are not talking about actual charges made against Baudelaire, but are refering to an ironic use of the word by Baudelaire himself. While it may be appropiate for Baudelaire to overstate the influence Poe had on him by calling his own work plagiarism, I believe an article needs to avoid ambigious statements of this sort. Unless Baudelaire was actually admitting to a crime I don't think that "plagiarism" is an appropriate word to use here. ~CS 13:15, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Baudelaire was being ironic, of course, but not because he didn't plagiarize. I'm just using his own language. In the New Directions Paperback version, published in 1989, it includes "Three Drafts of a Preface", which includes the following passage on page xxviii,

"Notes on my plagiarisms. — Thomas Gray. Edgar Poe (2 passages). Longfellow (2 passages). Statius. Virgil (the whole of Andromache). Aeschylus. Victor Hugo."

Though he's being ironic, I do think he is also openly saying he borrowed 2 passages from Poe. The ironic part is that he thinks that's not a bad thing at all.

It's also important because Poe himself plagiarized frequently, while, at the same time, vehemently attacking other authors for plagiarism, especially Longfellow. Poe also once wrote an article called "The Reviewer Reviewed" in which he (under a psuedonym) lambasted himself for all of his own plagiarisms. I was actually thinking of adding a section on Poe's strange relationship with plagiarism, I just haven't had a chance to do it yet. Wje 02:01, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi, yep, I found the book and you're right, Wje (that's a pretty cool edition, by the way). If it's OK with you, though, I'm just going to reword it a bit to make it clear that this was in a draft of a preface, and not in the edition that Baudelaire eventually had published during his lifetime. Lesgles 04:00, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Metafilter discussion of the accuracy of this page

Just thought those who regularly edit this page might be interested to know that it has come up in this discussion at MetaFilter, specifically beginning with this post. -- ManekiNeko | Talk 00:40, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The complaints in that discussion are crap. The article says Poe was "the foremost proponent of the Gothic strain in literature". That does not in my understanding imply that he created the Gothic genre--it says only that he is one of the (two) biggest and most famous writers of the Gothic genre, which I doubt anyone would dispute. Who would consider Walpole a more significant author than Poe or Mary Shelley? I don't know why people would want to take that phrase as saying he originated the gothic genre. It obviously says no such thing. The metafilter entry claims the poe article claims that Poe "invented the gothic novel". Poe didn't even write novels, with the exception of one adventure novel, and the article is very clear on that. Wje 22:13, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Source for dates?

Hi, I couldn't find a reliable source for dating Poe's works. I found [2] which has dates for all short stories. Do you think this is reliable? Any other idea? Yann 12:35, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Ideality link

Second para of Edgar Allan Poe#Literary and artistic theory has a link Ideality, but that ideality article is about phrenology. Is that the correct target, or should it be Ideal (ethics), or just unlinked? I couldn't quite tell (though I did presume it wasn't referring to Ideality in TRIZ. :-) — Kevin Ryde 21:39, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Poe's definition of "Ideality" was derived from phrenology, so that would probably be the right target, even though his definition was not exactly like the phrenological definition. Wje 06:44, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Eureka

Gravity is the weakest force? Is it not gravity that forms the "degenerate" matter in white dwarfs and crushes electrons into protons thereby creating neutron stars? Is it not gravity that waprs the very fabric of space and time, even to the point of creating the inescapable black holes, thereby conquering the forces that support the nucleus?

It strikes me that referring to gravity as the "weakest" force is misleading. It has the greatest reach and, ultimately, the greatest power.

70.116.68.198 22:38, 31 December 2005 (UTC)Don Granberry.

Check the wikipedia page on fundamental forces. Gravity is the weakest by several orders of magnitude. Wje 00:37, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I'm quite familiar with those claims and have been for a long time. It just strikes me as odd that we refer to the force that steers galaxies and creates black holes as the "weakest" force. The reach of gravity is essentially universal and touches everything, even such things as light, which the forces holding nucei together cannot touch. So, explain to me once again how it is that gravity is the "weakest" of the natural forces. All the other forces have a very limited range, yes?

70.116.68.198 15:14, 2 January 2006 (UTC)Don.

• Gravity is the weakest force for the same reason that the one dollar bill is the least valuable of US banknotes. It doesn't matter if Washington is the best known president or if it's the most familiar bill or the most common or the most popular with the public. It's mathematically the least valuable. Likewise, it doesn't matter if gravity is the most pervasive, most obvious, or most important to life or the structure of the universe. It is mathematically the weakest. --Tysto 18:34, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

But dollar bills are useful, so is gravity. (ChildOfMorella 17:24, 27 February 2006 (UTC))

Correct. The measurement of the strength of a force is not based on its range, but on its ability to do work. Gravity is a curvature of space-time, so theoretically its reach is infinite. However, this is not a measurement of how strong the force is, but only of how far it reaches. Even though two of the fundamental forces--the strong force and the weak force--only reach for a very short distance, within the area in which they operate they are much more powerful than gravity. If gravity were stronger than the strong force or the weak force, it would have the power to rip atoms apart, which we know is not true. Wje 20:40, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

"Gravity is a curvature of space-time." That explains it. Such dogmatic statements are rare and valuable, because they completely satisfy everyone's curiosity. No more need to think or discuss. Case closed.Lestrade 15:31, 12 February 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

The original claim here was entirely spurious, and rightfully recognized as such. However, what about modern quantum theories of gravity, some of which posit a considerably stronger force of gravity which bleeds out into extra dimensions, making the effect weaker in our 3+1 dimensions. This is the idea behind Supergravity, although this article is not particually easy to understand. In any case, the point is that it's a bit too early to say that gravity has been proven to be weakest. We've proven that it's the weakest locally, we don't know for sure about it's true nature.Arturus 06:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Frequent vandalism

Does anyone know how to list an article on the frequent vandalism page? This is getting out of hand. Nareek 01:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, several of us know how to list it there. I agree that Poe is heavily vandalized, but it also has a lot of good editors watching it to revert vandalism...including many admins who can take further steps and protect it if it really got out of hand (ala the George W. Bush level of vandalism when we take the semiprotection off). --Syrthiss 12:30, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

There's been 15 attacks in the last few days. I reverted one attack that had been up for two hours, and another that lasted for half an hour--it seems to me like an actual problem. Nareek 20:38, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I just restored a section that had been replaced with a one-liner that had been there for an hour. The attacks are coming so frequently that a would-be restorer reverted to another vandal's version. If this isn't an article that requires special vandalism attention, I'd hate to see one that does. Nareek 01:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

You are of course welcome to request protection at WP:RPP, which is a reasonably easy process. That would, if approved, cause the article to be uneditable by non-logged in users and newer users. Its just my feeling that it would not be approved. I can explain more on your talk page. As for an article more heavily vandalized than this one that also isn't semiprotected, try Cheese. --Syrthiss 16:48, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

The Vandalism thing really IS getting out of hand, but I don't know how to fix it. -skippyt

Category:Futurism

People, "futurism" does not mean "looking into the future", or id does so only marginally. The person who placed Poe in the cat should have the common sense to look at whatever else is in there. Check out the article: Futurism (art). Dahn 08:37, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Detective fiction

Isn't Maurits Hansen the progenitor of detective fiction, rather than Poe? Mordet paa Maskinbygger Roolfsen [The Murder of Machine-Builder Roolfsen] was published in 1839, whereas The Murders in the Rue Morgue didn't appear until 1841. 84.234.138.130

Poe and music

Since the Poe article is considerably longer than WP guidelines suggest, it seems like a good idea to spin off the more separable parts of the article into their own pages. I've created an article called Edgar Allan Poe and music, based on the music section here plus a couple of other references, augmented by a little bit of Internet digging. Not only does it give us the chance to slim down the main article, separating the Poe/music material seemed to make it easier to organize it, giving it, I think, somewhat more coherence as an article than it had as a section. Please take a look, and if it seems like it works as the beginnings of an article, let's replace the corresponding sections here with a "see also" reference. Nareek 12:29, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Nice work :) --Syrthiss 13:50, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Quote requiring verification

He also once said how “allegory is an inferior form of literature, because it is designed to evoke interest in both the narrative and abstract ideas for which the story stands for and distracts the reader from the singleness effect”.

He actually said that? Double "for"s and all? I Googled for a cite and found nothing but a couple dozen duplicates of this article. --Mr. Billion 03:01, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

It seems to be a garbling of this quote, from Poe's review of Hawthorne's Twice Told Tales:

In defence of allegory, (however, or for whatever object, employed,) there is scarcely one respectable word to be said. Its best appeals are made to the fancy — that is to say, to our sense of adaptation, not of matters proper, but of matters irnproper for the purpose, of the real with the unreal; having never more of intelligible connection than has something with nothing, never half so much of effective affinity as has the substance for the shadow. The deepest emotion aroused within us by the happiest allegory, as allegory, is a very, very imperfectly satisfied sense of the writer's ingenuity in overcoming a difficulty we should have preferred his not having attempted to overcome. The fallacy of the idea that allegory, in any of its moods, can be made to enforce a truth — that metaphor, for example, may illustrate as well as embellish an argument — could be promptly demonstrated: the converse of the supposed fact might be shown, indeed, with very little trouble — but these are topics foreign to my present purpose. One thing is clear, that if allegory ever establishes a fact, it is by dint of over-turning a fiction. Where the suggested meaning runs through the obvious one in a rely profound undercurrent, so as never to interfere with the upper one without our own volition, so as never to show itself unless called to the surface, there only, for the proper uses of fictitious narrative, is it available at all. Under the best circumstances, it must always interfere with that unity of effect which, to the artist, is worth all the allegory in the world. Its vital injury, however, is rendered to the most vitally important point in fiction--that of earnestness or verisimilitude. That "The Pilgrim's Progress" is a ludicrously over-rated book, owing its seeming popularity to one or two of those accidents in critical literature which by the critical are sufficiently well understood, is a matter upon which no two thinking people disagree; but the pleasure derivable from it, in any sense, will be found in the direct ratio of the reader's capacity to smother its true purpose, in the direct ratio of his ability to keep the allegory out of sight, or of his inability to comprehend it. Of allegory properly handled, judiciously subdued, seen only as a shadow or by suggestive glimpses, and making its nearest approach to truth in a not obtrusive and therefore not unpleasant appositeness, the "Undine" of De La Motte Fouque is the best, and undoubtedly a very remarkable specimen. [3]

Wje 17:51, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! --Mr. Billion 17:47, 23 March 2006 (UTC)