Talk:Eclipse Theia

Discussion

See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Software/Free_and_open-source_software_task_force#Review_article and Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation#Draft:Eclipse_Theia. ~Kvng (talk) 22:56, 17 February 2019 −(UTC)

I've copyedited this article. Although it contains paid contributions, I believe the content conforms to the neutral point of view policy. — Newslinger talk 10:08, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Applications section removal

I removed the application section today as it is a clear violation of WP:ADVERTISING and breaks Wikipedia Terms of Use which explicitly forbid organisations and individuals from using Wikipedia for promotion. 10 mins after another company bought their product, the paid editor who created the article updated the applications section with the name of the company. This is a clear promotion. I've asked the editor to start using Wikipedia:Edit requests which is the standard mechanism that WP recommends for paid editors to update the article. If an uninvolved editor finds the applications section to non-promotional, it will be added back in. scope_creep^Talk 08:18, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

scope_creep#top My intention of adding a recent application was simply to keep the site up-to-date and to add an other source to strengthen the notability of Theia, as it has been questioned before. I am gladly taking your advise about Wikipedia:Edit requests and I will definitely use it next time. In my opinion the application section is very relevant for the article as it underlines the notability and emphasizes usages situations, which might help the reader to understand it better. Newslinger Kvng What do you think about it? ChristinFrohne (talk) 08:57, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi ChristinFrohne, Wikipedia has a lot of policies and guidelines regarding article content, and I'd like to direct your attention to the undue weight policy. To summarize, the quantity of information in articles should be proportional to the amount of coverage the information has received in reliable sources, preferably secondary sources. In the removed "Applications" section, any claims that are not backed by reliable secondary sources probably don't belong in the article. Let's look at each of the products that were covered in that section:

1. IBM Microclimate: The claim cites a TechTarget article, so this can stay.
2. Gitpod: The claim cites an article from The Register (RSP entry), so this can stay.
3. Eclipse Che 7: The claim is backed by Heise Online, so this can stay.
4. IBM Wazi: The claim is only supported by an IBM announcement. This is a self-published source, so the claim can removed as undue weight.
5. Google Cloud Platform: The claim references Google Cloud Platform's own documentation, which is also self-published. The claim can be removed.
6. Mbed Studio: The claim cites Mbed Studio's own website, and can be removed.

In the future, please keep in mind that as much of the article content as possible should be backed by reliable independent sources, since content supported by unreliable and/or non-independent sources can be challenged in some way. Also, edit requests are the recommended way for editors to edit an article they have a conflict of interest with, as it helps ensure that the article remains neutral. ​— Newslinger talk 18:05, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@Newslinger: I would suggest an uninvolved editor take a look at it through the edit request mechanism. Most of the references are name drops, mentions in passing only, i.e. as used in their product. As source's they are really not robust, independent secondary sources. scope_creep^Talk 18:26, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

​I agree that ChristinFrohne should use an edit request if they want to reinstate this content. My opinions above are based on the state of other articles, such as Chromium (web browser) § Other browsers based on Chromium, which lists the derivatives of another piece of software that is used as a framework. While the sources for #1-3 above don't provide significant coverage of Theia, I believe they are in a gray area with respect to the undue weight policy. — Newslinger talk 18:35, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

I guess if its article consensus, crack on.scope_creep^Talk 22:42, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Edit request

The following section was deleted from the original article as it was perceived as an advertising (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Eclipse_Theia). But I think that this section is very relevant for the article as it states the notability of the article and helps the reader to understand where and how the IDE is used. Also, I'd like to point out that the article is about an open-source software, so there are no monetary advantages coming with it. The sections of applications only intents to improve the quality and the understanding of the article. Therefore, I am asking to please restore this section.

"Applications In March 2018, the IBM Microclimate microservices platform incorporated Theia as one of its components.[14] In September 2018, the online IDE Gitpod was released as a derivative of Theia.[15][16] In October 2018, Eclipse Che implemented Theia as their default web IDE.[17][18] In December 2018, IBM announced a new cloud IDE for Cobol that is based on Theia.[19] In January 2019, Google announced that Theia would be used in the Google Cloud Platform.[20] Since February 2019, Mbed Studio is build on the Theia IDE [21]" ChristinFrohne (talk) 11:56, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Reply 15-APR-2019

  Unable to review edit request  
Your edit request could not be reviewed for two reasons:

1. The proposed edit request is not referenced. Any requested edit of yours which may be implemented will need to contain references.
2. Citation ref tags linked to actual sources have not been placed within the requested text. Instead, the requesting editor uses numbers placed within brackets (i.e., [12], [13], etc.) These bracketed numbers do not align with any references placed on the talk page.

In the collapsed section below titled Request edit examples, I have illustrated two: The first shows how the edit request was submitted; the second shows how requests should be submitted in the future.

Request edit examples

Incorrectly formatted request: The Sun's diameter is 864,337.3 miles,[16] while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles.[17] The Sun's temperature is 5,778 degrees Kelvin.[19] References NONE In the example above there are three claim statements, but these claim statements are not accompanied by ref tags linked to sources. In the place of ref tags, bracketed numbers have been placed at positions in the text. These bracketed numbers do not align with any known source on the talk page. Additionally, the bracketed numbers are numerically higher (16, 17, 19) than the number of sources provided (0). Your edit request similarly uses bracketed numbers which are unconnected to any references on the talk page. Using the correct style and the correct positioning of the ref tags, the WikiFormatted text should resemble the following: Correctly formatted request: Please add the following sentence to the first paragraph of the article's "Sun and Moon" section: The Sun's diameter is 864,337.3 miles,<ref>{{cite book|last1=Sjöblad|first1=Tristan|title=The Sun|url=http://www.booksource.com|publisher=Academic Press|date=2018|page=1}}</ref> while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles.<ref>{{cite journal|last1=Harinath|first1=Paramjit|title=Size of the Moon|journal=Science|issue=78|volume=51|url=http://www.journalsource.com|date=2018|page=46}}</ref> The Sun's temperature is 5,778 degrees Kelvin.<ref>{{cite book|last1=Uemura|first1=Shu|title=The Sun's Heat|url=http://www.websource.com|publisher=Academic Press|date=2018|page=2}}</ref> Which displays as: Please add the following sentence to the first paragraph of the article's "Sun and Moon" section: The Sun's diameter is 864,337.3 miles, while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles. The Sun's temperature is 5,778 degrees Kelvin. References In the example above the references have been provided showing the author, the source's name, date, etc. Also, the ref tags are placed in the exact location where the text which they reference resides. As Wikipedia is a volunteer project, edit requests such yours are generally expected to have this formatting done before the request is submitted for review.

Kindly rewrite your edit request so that it aligns more with the second example shown in the collapsed section above, and feel free to re-submit that edit request at your earliest convenience. If you have any questions about this formatting please don't hesitate to ask myself or another editor. Regards,  Spintendo  14:41, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Edit request

Thanks Spintendo for explaining how to format an edit request. So here is my request once again :) 

The following section was deleted from the original article as it was perceived as an advertising (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Eclipse_Theia). But I think that this section is very relevant for the article as it states the notability of the article and helps the reader to understand where and how the IDE is used. Also, I'd like to point out that the article is about an open-source software, so there are no monetary advantages coming with it. The sections of applications only intents to improve the quality and the understanding of the article. Therefore, I am asking to please restore this section.

Applications

In March 2018, the IBM Microclimate microservices platform incorporated Theia as one of its components. In September 2018, the online IDE Gitpod was released which is based on Theia. In October 2018, Eclipse Che implemented Theia as their default web IDE. In December 2018, IBM announced a new cloud IDE for Cobol that is based on Theia. In January 2019, Google announced that Theia would be used in the Google Cloud Platform. Since February 2019, Mbed Studio is build on the Theia IDE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChristinFrohne (talk • contribs) 11:26, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

References

Reply 16-APR-2019

  Edit request partly implemented  

• As references 4 through 6 are press releases, they can be discounted.

1. N Reference 1 is as scope_creep says, very thin, being mentioned in only two sentences: "IBM Microclimate includes Theia, a Visual Studio Code-based cloud and desktop IDE written in TypeScript. Developers can use Theia or their favorite IDE to iterate on their services." Ostensibly the word or here means that the use of Theia is optional in this case, which doesn't bode well for its overall significance to this technology.
2. Y Reference 2 no issues.
3. N Reference 3 mentions Theia more significantly, but the author appears to have gotten much of their information from other vendor's descriptions of Theia, with one reader going so far as to suggest that the author provide a link to Theia's project page for better information: "Ein Leser machte uns darauf aufmerksam, dass ein paar zusätzliche Informationen zu Theia sowie ein Link zur Projektseite nützlich sein können."

That leaves Ref 2 as the preferred source. I've implemented it under a new Usage subheading. Regards,  Spintendo  14:56, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Notes