Talk:Ecclesia (church)

Untitled

I reorganized this page a bit. Added the Church as "Bride of Christ" section. Clarified some sentences. Added end notes. --Benz74 21:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Matthew 9:15 Jesus answered, "How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he is with them? The time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; then they will fast.

In the above verse we see that Jesus calls His followers the "guests of the bridegroom"

The 'Bride Of Christ' is not the church, but this is a relatively recent interpretation theologically of scripture. Developed in the mid 19th century by those that started the rapture idea (Darby, scofiled ect). In scripture the church is always presented as the 'Body of Christ" while the Bride of Christ is the city of God that comes down from heaven, were the Church will dwell. Note the scriptures in Revelation that you quoted. Hardyplants 11:30, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Defining a forest without the trees - I disagree

In response to:

Matthew 9:15 Jesus answered, "How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he is with them? The time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; then they will fast.

In the above verse we see that Jesus calls His followers the "guests of the bridegroom"

The 'Bride Of Christ' is not the church, but this is a relatively recent interpretation theologically of scripture. Developed in the mid 19th century by those that started the rapture idea (Darby, scofiled ect). In scripture the church is always presented as the 'Body of Christ" while the Bride of Christ is the city of God that comes down from heaven, were the Church will dwell. Note the scriptures in Revelation that you quoted. Hardyplants 11:30, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

An Analogy

Let me draw a simple analogy to

I went to the computer store the other day and the salesman said, "Let me show you the latest operating system and productivity suite package called the 'Bride of Gates'." The salesman that talked to me had a tape measure in his hand, and he measured the box to be 12" X 8" X 4". The box had a hologram on it that shown bright as an Organic LED. It was wrapped in a gold ribbon with several coupons attached, each was shaped as a jewel, shining brightly. The box had many icons and pictures and could be opened from both ends. There was no operating manual within in it because it is now online. Replacing the limited life DVD is a flash memory card that will never decay for a million years.

... I immediately opened the package, discarded the contents into the trash and went back to my office to write a review on the "Bride of Gates". Btw, those Unix people that have recently started the "computer system that can instantly boot up" idea, headed by some old guys (Ritchie, Thompson, etc.), are responsible for coming up with the idea that the "Bride of Gates" is a collection of programs that can be uploaded to a server and downloaded by user-clients. Btw, that box that you see descending from the clouds in the TV commercial, well, in the monthly fliers, it is always represented as a pretty box for $499. Isn't that proof enough?

End of analogy. Diclaimer: No one should be offended, this is just my silly opinion.

Arguments

• The Lord is represented as a temple. Do we now conclude that He is not a person?

• The people of God are represented as a dwelling for God, are they not people?

• The Spirit and bride says "Come!" Inviting more to become part of their community. The saints of old are there already.

• "His bride has made herself ready." How is it that MY dwelling needs maintenance? Why didn't it prepare itself for me before I got home today?

• A guest can become a bride. The Lord had not been sacrificed for mankind as yet. The wedding will take place after He has selected His bride, and that after she has been dressed in white.

• As the parable goes ... some virgins did not have oil in ther lamps. They did not make it to the wedding, so all potential brides/virgins/guests, are not ultimately married to the bridegroom, so they are not part of The Bride of Christ we see in Revelation.

• "I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery." Here we aee nations spoken of as brides, sisters and adulterers.

• " "Return, faithless people," declares the LORD, "for I am your husband. I will choose you—one from a town and two from a clan—and bring you to Zion."

• Those called to be the bride are also known as the remnant; not the whole. Of all those that profess to follow Jesus, only a remnant are the bride ... and where the Lord will inhabit, like a city.

I'll leave the references to you for quick lookup by phrase. I used the King james and maybe the NIV. But it's all there, and more.

Summary

"The 'Bride Of Christ' is not the church." False. The church, after the Lord's house cleaning; the remnant ... definitely the bride. It is not a building or a 4 walled citadel or national soil, but people.

The key is 'prepared as a bride" not "prepared as the bride". A dress can be prepared as a bride is prepared, and not be the bride herself. When the bride appears at her wedding, she is adorned in her gown. The bride is still a bride with or without the gown, but the beauty of her gown expresses/enhances the beauty of the bride to the groom. So does the Bibilical citadel in Revelation. It expresses (to us) the beauty of the remnant bride to the Lord. Thus the bride is a collective, not a perimiteral boundary.

Excuse any misplelings.

Merge suggestion?

Where's the discussion about the merge? If no one objects, I'll take the merge template out in a few days. --JaGa^talk 02:57, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I found it; the discussion is on the other side of the merge - specifically, Talk:Christian Church#title / disambiguation. I think the merge is appropriate; if anyone has objections, please speak up! --JaGa^talk 03:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Done. Merged into Christian Church. --JaGa^talk 06:00, 22 September 2008 (UTC)