Talk:Early naval vessels of New Zealand

Name of the article

"Early naval boats of New Zealand"? Wouldn't vessels be a better term for an article with as diverse a collection of war craft as this one? When I hear the word battlecruiser, for example, I hardly think of the word boat. Or how about "Early warships of New Zealand"? Manxruler (talk) 23:26, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Yep. I suppose early naval vessels rather than early warships, since the article also covers surveying and boats too small to be thought of as ships.--Geronimo20 (talk) 01:13, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_naval_vessels_of_New_Zealand

why are there so many inaccuracies in this article? My research is at variance to much here, and I use verification from existant records from the time. I cross check anything in more recent books, and articles, as opinion does not constitute fact. regards vnkiwi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vnkiwi (talk • contribs) 11:10, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

The article was mostly written six years ago. A lot of archival material such as the contents of old newspapers has since been added to the web. If you think you have found conflicting or new data, then please update the article so it reflects what is in the more reliable sources, or discuss the specific issues here on the talk page. Thanks. --Epipelagic (talk) 11:42, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Moutoa

I have transferred these comments, which had been added to the article itself, to here where they are more appropriate --Epipelagic (talk) 01:32, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

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National Archives photograph depicts a much smaller vessel than the original 32m Moutoa which was built at Port Waikato in 1865. Original Moutoa was scrapped in 1870s. The vessel in this picture served on the Wanganui until 1894 then on the Foxton River

This image of Moutoa is very unlikely to be the 104' side paddle steamer which was built at Port Waikato. Reason

The end of the original Moutoa was in the South Island, around 1870. Nelson Evening Mail reported in March 9th 1870, that a Mr. Hathaway had purchased the Moutoa “which has for some been lying idle in the Pelorus Sound, for the purpose of using her engines in the flax manufacture, Messrs. Hathaway and March having taken up the flax country belonging to Mr. Soper, at Willow Glen.” (Willow Glen is in Wairau, near Blenheim.) According to Watts Index the old Moutoa was scrapped in 1872. (The Watt Index - ‘Index to the New Zealand Section of the Register of all British Ships 1840-1950’) Another vessel called Moutoa (most likely the one portrayed in the National Library photograph)appeared on the Whanganui River, first reported in Wanganui Herald 17th Aug 1887, and frequently thereafter in the same paper. Some people believe this to have been the original Moutoa re-engineered. This is unlikely for the following reasons (apart from the references above which refer to the demise of the original Moutoa in the 1870s):

Wanganui Herald 17th Aug 1887 describes stanchions which were added to the "Moutoa" for the purpose of supporting a tarpaulin. The NZ Archives photograph actually shows these stanchions. The original Maoutoa was 32m in length - consideration of scale suggests these stanchions would have to have been about 4m high, which is quite impractical. Further, consider the size of the two plate glass windows in the front of the cabin, which comprise almost the full beam of the vessel. The beam of the original Moutoa was 4.3 metres - far to great to be spanned by two glass windows. Even if glass were then available in that size, such an arrangement would be totally unseaworthy. Considerations of scale suggest that this new Moutoa as depicted in the photograph was a screw vessel about half the size of the original Moutoa - about 12 - 14m over all (at most)and about 2.5 m beam(at most.)

From Aug 1887 there are numerous references to a vessel called Moutoa on the Wanganui (after the old Moutoa had been broken up near to Nelson.)Numerous references in Wanganui Herald in 1887, 5/3/88, 24/12/88, 6/9/92, 27/1/93, Wanganui Chronicle 5/1/91, 5/2/91. Then there was a report that the vessel had changed hands and was now on the Foxton River (further suggesting a veesel quite a lot smaller than the original 32m Moutoa) - Manawatu Herald 1/9/94. This newspaper continued reporting the presence of the "Moutoa" 14/11/94, 13/12/94, 7/2/95, 10/2/95, 14/1/97, 15/3/98, until her "hull gave way" 18/10/98. These newspaper references can all be verified by searching the online facility paperspast. – 118.148.197.251 (talk) 00:05, 23 January 2016 (UTC)