Talk:Early history of Fremont County, Colorado

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Ute seasonal occupation

Oncamera We have been going back and forth on the word "inhabited", which the Oxford Dictionary states is "(of a person, animal, or group) live in or occupy (a place or environment). 'a bird that inhabits North America'." Its synonyms are: "live in, occupy, settle in, settle, people, populate, colonize, make one's home in, set up home in"... some of these could be temporary, I guess, but most aren't.

Visited is more correct - but it is better to say "wintered", which I changed it to. "Occupy seasonally" would work. The Utes lived primarily in the mountains, so it would be wrong to give the impression that they lived or spent most of their time east of the Continental Divide in an area that is partly desert. How does "winter" work for you? That is the most accurate.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:41, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The usage of inhabited is used when writing about the Ute on historical markers within Fremont County. Other tribes "moved" through the area following the buffalo. Source: First People, Explorers & Settlers. That signage and wording was written by the Royal Gorge Regional Museum & History Center.

Using terms like "visited" or "occupied" are not neutral terms, it makes it seem as thought Native people did not actually live there throughout the generations. They were only "visitors" until European colonizers arrived to "settle" the land; that way of writing is used to deny Indigenous claims to their homelands. Inhabited is neutral and encompasses the other terms like "occupied" or "wintered". oncamera _{(talk page)} 14:33, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I made an edit to be a bit more accurate: "About 700 years ago, Ute people began to spend the winter months at the hot springs along the Arkansas River."

Their interest was the hot springs. They didn't camp inside the gorge (it's not convenient, and put them at risk of attack). It would be accurate to say that they stayed at the mouth of Royal Gorge, but that seems wordy. Their goal was to be at the source of fresh river water and the hot springs.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As a side note, I don't need to use a word that the source used. We are supposed to paraphrase sources' content. I think we're getting close to done with this sentence.

Hopefully the current version makes it clear that they spent a season in the area. From what I have been able to tell, the first settled inhabitants were the people that established a farming and trading community and a trading post in the 1830s and 1840s - Early history of Fremont County, Colorado#Fur traders.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:42, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've added the unbalanced viewpoint tag to the article. The Southern Ute use the word inhabited when talking about their lands in Colorado: https://www.southernute-nsn.gov/history/ oncamera _{(talk page)} 20:13, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree that the Utes inhabited land in Colorado. They mostly lived west of the Continental Divide, but have traveled throughout Colorado for hunting and spiritual purposes. They didn't live, though, in Fremont County year-around. Just in the winter. What is going on?

Fine. I worded the sentence to use the word "inhabit" rather than a synonym. This isn't worth the time that this has taken. –CaroleHenson (talk) 20:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for finally using the terms used by the sources. oncamera _{(talk page)} 21:03, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's not the role of a Wikipedia editor. If you can find a guideline that says that we need to use the exact words from the source, against WP:Close paraphrasing, I would love to see it.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:09, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SEE WP:NPOV: "All encyclopedic content on Wikipedia must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic." The term is most neutral and used by reliable sources. WP:NPOV is a pillar of Wikipedia. Thanks, oncamera _{(talk page)} 21:18, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will agree to disagree with you on this.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:24, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]