Talk:Earldom of Orkney

Untitled

I started this entry as it was presented as a request in the commons. I will add as much information as I can when I have time (very soon, I hope) to do so. I encourage others to also add information. I apologize that I have not even began the Scottish era of the Earldom, which I know is what most people are probably interested in.

--Mike 07:56, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Also, I will add sources for my information in greater detail.

--Mike 07:56, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

There's already a (brief) article at Earl of Orkney - this content ought to be merged into there. sjorford #£@%&$?! 08:40, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't oppose the merge of these, but would want someone other than myself to make this call. After all, someone posted a request for this article. --Mike 09:12, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

No, I disagree. The Earl of Orkney is simply the person who was the ruler of earldom, and we need an article on the actually territory. Neutrality^talk 20:34, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Like I said, I will do whatever people thinks best here: I am mainly concerned with writing the article itself. However, there are already articles on the Orkney Isles themselves . . . how much information on the islands and their history should be in a seperate article regarding the Earldom? Or would it be better to focus on the history of the office and title itself? I am not sure what to include here and what to not include. --Mike 20:48, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

The article about the territory should be, and seems to be, under title Orkney Islands. Earl of Orkney deals also with the position of the earl. This page is redundant. Finlandais 14:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Merge discussion

It seems to me that having two very similar articles can only be confusing for readers and may well lead to some info being duplicated or missed. I strongly propose a merge.Abtract 19:53, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

To avoid duplicating the discussion, I suggets you put your comments on Talk:Earl of Orkney and not here.Abtract 22:49, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The Bronze Age was LONG before the Picts —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.221.226 (talk) 18:40, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Two similar articles, rationale for

Following copied here from talk page of User:Lobsterthermidor:

Hello. Could you please explain why you moved "Earldom of Orkney" to "Feudal Earldom of Orkney"?--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 01:36, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Because it is a different topic to the similarly named article Earl of Orkney (another "Earldom of Orkney"), a much later title created in the Peerage of Scotland, which title is presently held by the Fitz-Maurice family. The present representative, so far as I understand it, of the feudal Earls of Orkney is Malcolm Sinclair, 20th Earl of Caithness, who in recognition of this, in his coat of arms quarters the arms of the ancient earldom of Orkney, the lymphad. There is likewise a difference between the feudal Earldom of Arran (at present claimed by a Swiss millionaire who owns land formerly forming the caput of the feudal barony) and the two titles Earl of Arran in the Peerage of Ireland, held by the Gore family, and in the Peerage of Scotland, the latter one at present held by the Duke of Hamilton.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 17:35, 13 November 2015 (UTC))

So you envisage an article devoted to the medieval earldom, and an article devoted to the peerage created in 1696? OK, but the article that you moved to "Feudal Earldom of Orkney" was about the medieval earldom and doesn't seem to have contained anything about this early modern creation.

I think you should move the article back to where it was, and then take the redirect "Feudal Earldom of Orkney" and create a standalone article for this early modern title. That's the simplest way to handle it. "Earldom of Orkney" about the medieval Viking/Norwegian/Scottish earldom, and "Feudal Earldom of Orkney" about the more modern title. As for "Earl of Orkney", its a glorified list that lists all those who bore the titles. The bulkiness of this list can be trimmed and siphoned off into these other two articles.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 23:59, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

As far as I understand it what is meant by the "Feudal Earldom of Orkney" is exactly what you have called the "medieval Viking/Norwegian/Scottish earldom", which stretches back to pre-history. It is the earldom which existed based on ownership or feudal tenure of land, namely the Orkney Isles, presumably. The "Peerage title" that you have referred to as the "early modern creation" and a "glorified list" would have been created by a monarch (if it followed similar rules to English usage) either by a writ to attend parliament or by letters patent, nothing to do with feudalism, the grantee need not have owned a square inch of land in Orkney. The "glorified list" seems to be the established wikipedia style for peerage titles. I'm going to paste a copy of this discussion to the talk pages of the two articles.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:35, 15 November 2015 (UTC))

Merge proposal

See Earl of Orkney talk page per the above. Ben MacDui 16:26, 17 February 2018 (UTC)