Talk:ENS Anwar El Sadat

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Military history: Maritime / Russian & Soviet

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Ships

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Requested move 26 September 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. DrKay (talk) 14:23, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Russian amphibious assault ship Sevastopol → Sevastopol (LHD) – I propose to move this article's title to Sevastopol (LHD), as the origin of Sevastopol amphibious assault ship is France and the ship did not serve in the Russian navy. Also, the ship is considered to be a Landing helicopter dock (LHD) type. Bluewavedragon (talk) 15:28, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

According to WP:Ships, the ship name should be Egyptian ship Sevastopol or Egyptian amphibious assault ship Sevastopol. LHD is an American classification only. All ships not belonging to the US Navy, or at least built by the US Navy, should not be classified by their system. So no, don't agree with the move to the name proposed. Llammakey (talk) 17:03, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The LHD classification is not only used by the American navy but also used by the Australian navy as the Canberra-class landing helicopter dock. Also, LHD used to abbreviate the term of amphibious assault ship. Bluewavedragon (talk) 18:41, 27 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Australians use the same classification system as the US. Also, you don't abbreviate in titles, so at the very very least, it should be Egyptian landing helicopter dock Sevastopol. Llammakey (talk) 20:37, 27 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose prove that LHD is a French and/or Russian designation; and why we should use ambigous disambiguation, since LHD is not a ship topic -- 70.51.202.113 (talk) 04:00, 27 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

According to the DCNS website (prime contractor) the Mistral-class is a BPC (projection and command ships) also, designate the Mistral-class with LHD as well as many other sources. [1] [2] [3] [4]. Bluewavedragon (talk) 18:28, 27 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The DCNS website does not seem to use LHD. US English websites (ie. uses "defense") do not show that the French or Russians use the term LHD, which is a US Navy term, and the French were out of NATO for many years, developing their own terminology, while Russia has never been part of NATO. BPC is not spelled the same as LHD, it uses three other letters. That still doesn't make it an appropriate disambiguator, since LHD is ambiguous. -- 70.51.202.113 (talk) 04:05, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose It is highly unlikely the ship will retain that name when in Egyptian service. So should wait with the move until the new name has been announced. I don't see the benefit in moving the article knowing it will have to be moved again in the near future. ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 04:34, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Request move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to "Egyptian ship Anwar al-Sadat". - AHMED XIV (talk) 22:32, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The previous discussion for moving the page was ended by refusing the request with a decision to wait until the new name was announced. Well, now that the name has been announced, (Vladivostok --> Gamal Abdel Nasser / Sevastopol --> Anwar al-Sadat), we should open another discussion. Here is what I have:

First, three sources referring to the new names:

1- meretmarine.com - Link - 18 April 2016

2- bmpd.livejournal.com Link - 11 April 2016 (Excluded)

3- ouest-france.fr / lignesdesdefense.blogs Link - 9 April 2016 (Excluded)

Second, a photo of the official emblem of the "Gamal Abdel Nasser" ship - Link, the name is "E.N.S Gamal Abdel Nasser 1010", where "E.N.S" is the abbreviation of "Egyptian Navy Ship" and the number "1010" is of course the hull number.

Conclusion: Vladivostok --> Gamal Abdel Nasser / Sevastopol --> Anwar al-Sadat

I invite you to join the discussion in order to reach a final decision for the page title. (Tupsumato, DrKay , Bluewavedragon, Llammakey, ÄDA - DÄP VA, 70.51.202.113, Steelpillow, and of course anyone is free to join)

Note: It will be better if we also discuss the other ship "Sevastopol" here and then transfer the discussion there after making a decision for the two ships. - AHMED XIV (talk) 18:12, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well the meretmarine link would be considered a reliable source. The other two are blogs so I'd love to know where they got their information from. If both those blogs got their information from meretmarine, then essentially you have one source. Now if the names do check out then by all means, change the names. I would suggest something in the along the lines of "Egyptian amphibious assault ship ..." since the Egyptian Navy does not use NATO or US naval terminology. Llammakey (talk) 19:36, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment While Mer et Marine is probably right, I think we should give it a few more days just in case they themselves have been misled: they only posted the news item today. If say the Government were to publish an announcement, that would certainly be enough. The other two links are blog posts and are not reliable. I'd prefer article titles along the lines of "E.N.S. Gamal Abdel Nasser" - we don't want anything long-winded. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 20:01, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, the two blog links have been excluded since they are not reliable sources. As for Mer et Marine, the information it provides would be considered a reliable source and also there is the ship emblem which evidently proves that Mer et Marine is right. In fact, the ship emblem alone is enough as a source. I agree with Steelpillow, "Egyptian amphibious assault ship Gamal Abdel Nasser" is too long. I'd prefer "E.N.S Gamal Abdel Nasser 1010" and "E.N.S Anwar al-Sadat 1020". - AHMED XIV (talk) 21:04, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The first source (Mer et marine), is considered a reliable source while the other two sources are not. Also, if you could provide another reliable source, will be preferred before changing the name of the article. Finally, abbreviations must not used in titles as E.N.S and instead I suggest "Egyptian Ship Gamal Abdel Nasser (1010)". Bluewavedragon (talk) 23:24, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No E.N.S. as no abbreviations in titles. Egyptian ship Gamal Abdel Nasser would be acceptable if length is an issue. Per the discussion on US hull numbers over at WP:Ships, hull numbers are not acceptable in article titles where the article does not need to be disambiguated. Llammakey (talk) 01:34, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So abbreviations and hull numbers are not accepted and we need something not too long. "Egyptian ship Gamal Abdel Nasser" sounds great. - AHMED XIV (talk) 02:19, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Military Exercises

The empty heading Military Exercises looks odd, especially as the first exercise is mentioned in the previous para. Davidships (talk) 23:15, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Article title

Just so if anyone else decides to move the page to the ENS version. do not include the hull number. There is no other ship of the name, therefore the article does not need to be disambiguated, which is what the hull number in the article title would be for. Llammakey (talk) 16:59, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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