Talk:EMD DE30AC and DM30AC

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Not Built By EMD

These locomotives were built by Super Steel in Schenectady NY. Claiming that they were built by EMD (even worse, EMDiesels, which didn't exist in 1998!) is almost like claiming that NJ Transit's PL42AC is an EMD locomotive due to its EMD 16-710 prime mover, or any of the MP36PH-3C/3S locomotives made by Motive Power due to their 16-645s. (Some of CalTrans' F59PHIs were built at Super Steel, also.)

71.241.94.47 (talk) 22:21, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Super Steel fabricated body sections and did assembly of said parts, but they were sub-contractors on the project that EMD worked with in order to gain political caché under the "built in New York" provisions of the order. Everyone, not just Wikipedia, cites them as EMD locos. See here: [[1]], [[2]], [[3]], [[4]] oknazevad (talk) 21:18, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Citing "everyone" is argumentum ad populum. Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia and not a list of incomplete facts based on perceived consensus of opinion.

Further, the article remains inaccurate so long as it continues to cite the locomotives as being built by Electro-Motive Diesels, a company that came to be in 2004. (It's bad enough that the current Wikipedia article has the history of EMDiesels, EMD and EMC unified under the Electro-Motive Diesel article; perhaps this needs to be fixed also.)

70.105.195.189 (talk) 22:59, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia and not a list of incomplete facts based on perceived consensus of opinion.

Of course, Wikipedia should be factual, but consensus is one of the fundamental principles of the project.

Maybe my use of "everyone" was rhetorically excessive, but I certainly cited the use of the term EMD (commonly used collectively for both the GM division and the spun off, independent company) to describe them.

As for the EMDivision vs EMDiesel distinction, that argument belongs over at the EMD page, where you'll note that the consensus (that again) was that there should be one article. oknazevad (talk) 19:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Single cab and more on push-pull train usage information, please.

A few questions to which the answers are unclear from the article (and this talk page), but which I'm sure would be easy for those that know.

1. Are (all) these locomotives of a single (-ended) cab layout, and if so, do they have an hostler stand at the other end (note that these are rare in Europe, and pretty much unknown here in the UK)?

Yes. Trains that need to be operated in reverse are backed up with the engineer controlling the train and a conductor guiding the engineer. This is rare, though.Cluefinder42 (talk) 02:25, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

2. Single engines generally run with 6 cars and a (sic) placed on the East (Manhattan) end of the train..., whilst my knowledge of NYC geography is that Manhattan is to the west of Long Island (and I don't recall seeing these at Jamaica in 2006 either). Could this be clarified, please?

3. When two engines are used with 8 or more cars, are these both placed at the same end of the train, or one at each end?

They are placed at opposite ends of the train. It is extremely rare to see both placed at the same end.Cluefinder42 (talk) 02:25, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

4. If the locos are sometimes used at the other end, where do they get turned, or are some of them always left facing the other way?

There are turntables at Morris Park facility (where most engines are maintained). They can also be "wyed" at various locations across the island. For the most part, equipment (engines and cars) are not nomally changed throughout the day. Most train sets nowadays stay together for 92 days (the next FRA mandated inspection). After the 92 days, the equipment is inspected in Morris Park and shuffled around. They can use the turntable there to change the direction.Cluefinder42 (talk) 02:25, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

5. Can a two engine service run with a DE30AC and a DM30AC, and if so, how many cars and a DE30AC could be taken into Penn Station by a DM30AC?

Yes, they are interoperable. The LIRR does not like to do this because it results in the engineer being paid double for that day (you get double pay if you operate a diesel and an electric train in the same shift, and the DE30AC is considered a diesel and the DM30AC is considered an electric locomotive, therefore a train with both means double pay) It can be done, though.

As far as Dual Engines and Dual Modes being taken into Penn together, that cannot operationally happen under normal conditions. The reason they need 2 Dual Modes on each end of the train is because of the long gaps in the third rail in HAROLD and A interlocking. There are only third rail shoes on the Dual Mode locomotive, not the cars or the DE locomotive. With only one DM locomotive on a train, there is only one set of third rail shoes and it is very possible to "gap" the train. If the train "gaps" (has no third rail shoes touching the third rail) the train goes completely dead (no power, no lights, no HVAC). They then need to make the mode change to diesel mode, get back onto the third rail, and then make the mode change back to electric, meanwhile gumming up the works of busy interlockings during rush hour. And if it happens in A interlocking (between the hill to West Side Yard and Penn Station) starting the engines can send fumes thorough the station and setting off the smoke detectors (thus leading to the FDNY paying a visit, etc.) Cluefinder42 (talk) 02:25, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks in advance. Tim PF (talk) 00:41, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]