Talk:Dyke (slang)/Archive 1

Archive 1

possible material for etymology section

With regard “dyke,” the word itself has never been exclusively negative either, and there are two theories in particular that explain how it has evolved into a term for aggressive or masculine women. The first has to do with a “Celtic queen who organized a revolt against the Roman Empire in early Britain in 67 A.D.” (Halberstam, “Declaration”). Her name was Queen Boudicca, pronounced “buadyke” in some dialects, and her stand against the Romans is sometimes claimed as a model for early versions of female power and toughness in women (Grahn, “Declaration”). Although I do enjoy this version, with regard to the trademark case I prefer the second theory, which claims that the word “dyke” comes from the Greek goddess Dike. According to one source, although “She may have started her career on Earth, [she] quickly moved up to sitting on the Right (Dike means Right) of Zeus as his number one counselor. She was the Goddess of Justice” (Athena). With regard to this role, another source explains that, “she watched the deeds of man, and approached the throne of Zeus with lamentations whenever a judge violated justice. … She was the enemy of all falsehood, and the protectress of a wise administration of justice” (Atsma).[1]

Halberstam, Judith. “Declaration of Judith Halberstam Under 37 C.F.R. § 2.20.” Exhibit 15. Declarations in Support of Request for Reconsideration. Brooke Oliver Law Group, P.C. 18 March 2005 <http://www.artemama.com/>.

Grahn, Judy. “Declaration of Judy Grahn Under 37 C.F.R. § 2.20.” Exhibit 15. Declarations in Support of Request for Reconsideration. Brooke Oliver Law Group, P.C. 18 March 2005 <http://www.artemama.com/>.

Athena, Ailia. “The Greek Goddesses.” Women in Greek Myths. 15 July 2006 <http://www.paleothea.com/Goddesses.html>.

Atsma, Aaron. “Dike.” Theoi Project Guide to Greek Mythology. 15 July 2006 < http://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/HoraDike.html>.

I'm working on Dykes on Bikes and thought this might be of use. Benjiboi 22:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Merge

This page was merged shortly after its creation without comment. The reasons for the creation of this page include:

• This is a derogatory term like fag (which is not a redirect to homosexual), nigger (which does not redirect to blacks), etc.
• The categorization of this page places it in ready reach of many other such terms, and it from them.

Please do not make radical changes to such pages without discussion. If you feel that this page should be merged, there are templates that open up the discussion to a wider audience. -Harmil 14:39, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Note: except for the disambiguation link, the very first link on this page is to lesbian, and I agree that that is the primary source for details on the topic of lesbianism in general. This is a specific page about this one term -Harmil 14:44, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't think this page contains enough material to justify a separate article, which is why I merged it. Fag is effectively a disambiguation page, though I concede nigger. I'll place an appropriate template on the page, since I do think it should be merged. Ken 15:35, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

I'm torn here but I'll come down against a merge; I note there is already an article at Lipstick lesbian and arguably this term is as valid and already the same size. There is no "terminology" section on lesbian (there should be - I'll try to write it soon) and this could be expanded further. I note the link on the merge template is leading to 'lesbian' rather than here btw. --Vamp:Willow 16:07, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm strongly against it. Dyke has shades of meaning and intent different from lesbian. Also the invective potential of dyke makes a merge and re-direct contextually dodgy. Wyss 18:52, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Regarding Lipstick lesbian, I'd say it should be merged as well. There should definitely be a "terminology" section in the main article. As far as shades of meaning, invective, etc. yes, the word dyke can be pejorative. So can "lawyer" or "accountant". And the word dyke is used, according to the article in question, "... is usually used in a non-pejorative sense as simple alternative to 'lesbian' or 'gay woman'." I don't see the objection. Ken 00:02, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

Move?

The discussion about merging is useful, and valid (I've already stated my position above), but assuming that we keep the separate article, I'm tempted to move this to "Dyke (slang)", since most other articles that need parentheticals to disambiguate use a term like "slur" or "slang" not further definition. Thoughts? -Harmil 18:58, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

"Dyke (slang)" might make sense, although arguably the use for the tools is also a slang usage and the disambig term in the brackets often relates to the target too. I'm probably happy whichever ... --Vamp:Willow 19:35, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

You have a good point there. I'll leave it, I guess. -Harmil 19:38, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Bulldyke

Another recent edit changed "bulldyke" to "bull dyke". This is incorrect, and while listing both terms might make sense, the history of the word "bulldyke" goes back to the 1920s, when the word was "bulldyker" (which incidentally invalidates the WWII theory, so I'll remove that). [2] Based on this historical use of the single-word variant, I'm going to add it back in, but I too have seen the (perhaps more common) modern two-word variant so it stays. -Harmil 18:58, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

That was me adding the space there; haven't come across it as a single word (I wasn't around in the 20s is my excuse!) --Vamp:Willow 19:35, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Dyke reclaimed

I think that this article needs a little more info on the status of the word within the LGBT community (including adding that info to the intro). I think that a prime example of the misunderstanding of the word was the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office's denial of the "Dykes on Bikes" trademark, which was recently reversed (see [3], [4], and [5]). What would be great is to find a good photo of the Dykes on Bikes at the head of a Gay Pride parade. I tried a quick Google Image search, but didn't see anything that I thought would work. Here's a link to the San Francisco Woman's Motocycle Contigent/Dykes on Bikes website: [6].

There are now Dyke Marches around the world (see [7], which is another example of the reclaimation of the word within the LGBT community. 4.232.105.117 10:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

The tone of the article seems to suggest that "dyke" is used by the majority of gay women. Is this really the case? None of the several gay female friends I have use the word, and some of them have expressed a distaste for the word when asked about it. If there is no external evidence that a majority of gay women use "dyke" or support its use, I suggest modifying the article changing things like "most" and "often" to "many" and "sometimes." --Babcockd 11:51, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Origin

I'm deleting this, which seems frankly ridiculous: "The word may have originated from the Celtic language (the name, Boudicca, was that of a powerful queen). The use of the term bulldyke would seem to support this theory." I guess the idea is that "bulldyke" is somehow similar-sounding to "Boudicca", but there is no evidence that it's Celtic (it combines two English words) or that it's at all ancient, since it's first attested in the 1920s. Unless there is a source to be found for this, surely it's not appropriate here.
--Paul B 01:53, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

For the record, this etymology was suggested by Judy Grahn in her book Another Mother Tongue. I agree that it's very unlikely but it may be worth including as a popular association, even if just to debunk it. Another folk etymology was just added where the term derives from a Dutch story of someone plugging a hole in a dam wall (dyke) with their finger. Also highly unlikely (I reverted it for now). As far as I can tell though, no-one really knows where the word comes from.
--ntennis 01:15, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Another folk etymology was added to the article by an anonymous editor. I removed it here for now, as a google for aglodike and dyke revealed only this wikipedia article. I doubt there is anything to it:

Interestingly, the famous female greek physician Aglodike (Late 4th century BC) was known to dress in men's clothes, being that it was unacceptable for women to practice medicine. Aglodike was saved from execution by the women of her town, who loved her "caring touch" as a physician. Historians speculate that the word dyke may have originated from Aglodike.

Any of the three etymologies suggested above should go in a section called "folk etymology", if at all. While we're at it, I also found this on the internet:

"Another possibility is that the term derives from *dike* meaning "to overdress", "to wear fancy clothes", *diked out* has been used in the same way as *decked out* in the United States since the 1840's. Arguing both these theories is the fact that word appears first in the long term forms *bulldike* and *bulldyking*, both used in the 1920's by American blacks. No african antecedents have been found for the term, however which leads to the possibility that this is basically just another backcountry, barnyard word, perhaps a combination of *bull* and *dick*."
--ntennis 03:17, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

There is much debate as to the etymology of "dyke." All etymologies should be listed as speculative, and one is no more ridiculous than another. Boudicca, the Greek mythological figure Dike, bull dick, bulldog and hermaphro-dyke are all plausible. One thing that sticks in my craw about the article is the "use of a French word, dike," for cross-dressing. I have a lot of experience with Romance philology, and I find no such word. Plus, the letter "k" found in "dike" is very very un-French. Any light to be shed on this would be appreciated.
--Iamvered 18:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Check this out: [8]
--Iamvered 18:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Is there no room for the consideration that dyke means ditch, for instance G.A. Henty's "By Pyke and Dyke", and that ditch sounds like bitch? I know its pejorative, but, slang words often have ominous origins. I mean, I could see a male calling a butch women a dyke, then her being like "What?", and him replying "I called you a ditch.", while slurring the d. Being called a ditch anyway wouldn't be nice. I know this seems like original research, but I thought that the etymology of a word should be based on its roots, so I don't see how the word dyke could not have to do with a ditch.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.255.136.153 (talk) 16:09, 26 November 2010
--Michael, 16:10 , 26 November 2010 (UTC) — Preceding HAND-BUILT SIG added by 206.255.136.153 (talk) 16:11, 26 November 2010

Michael, i give you credit for a cleaner mind (or narrower circle of associates) than i have had: you missed the possibility that "dyke (ditch)" --> "dyke (lesbian)" is explained by the concept of a ditch being a figurative wound ("gash") in the ground, thus paralleling what i assume is the etymology of gash^{sense 2}.
--Jerzy•t 01:24 & 02:07, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

I agree that the Anne Bonny story is implausible; no academic discussion I can find supports this origin. Moved here in case someone can clarify and source it:

The word dike appeared in 1710 in British newspaper stories about cross-dressing pirates Anne Bonny and Mary Read. One editorial euphemistically referred to their cross dressing with a French word, dike, which refers to men's clothing.

—Celithemis

--23:49, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I feel like if the Aglodike reference isn't completely made up (as the only information I can find about her seems to be a repetition of the same story paraphrased) then there might be some meaning that actually extends to a time before Aglodike, since the name Eurydike (or Eurudike) appears before the fourth century in reference to somebody, apparently meaning "she whose justice extends widely" (according to the Wikipedia article on Orpheus, section called Death of Eurydice), and I'm quite sure that a woman whose "justice extends widely" would be compared to a lesbian more often than not. Anyway, just felt like inserting my 0.015 Euros.
--—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.86.254 (talk) 07:03, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

   Our article on her is Agnodice, where the c/k variant is considered acceptable (tho the n/l variant suggests not realizing the value of copy-and-paste -- plus lousy short-term memory or not giving a damn).
--Jerzy•t 01:24, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Why hasn't anyone brought up for the etymology of this word its possible allusion to the Dutch fable of little boy who saved Holland by plugging the failing dyke with his finger? Not to be overly crude...but it seems plausible - can't find any sources on this though, just a hunch.
--— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.209.35.35 (talk) 09:50, 10 September 2013 Actually 4 edits by that IP, including the 1st 2, which respectively misplaced a version of it in another talk section and removed it from there.

I've a vague memory that "the little boy who put his finger in a dyke" was at least the core and perhaps the whole ("Did you hear the one about..." doesn't count as part of the joke that follows, does it?!) of a submission in a Playboy Party Jokes installment in, uh... early '70s ....?
--Jerzy•t 01:24, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Picture deletion

I deleted the childish link to pictures of people. This is obviously just an attempt to make fun of these girls. May 2006

Widely used in the UK?

Just a question: is this expression a widely used in the UK as it is in the US? What about the rest of the english-speaking world? Thanks for answering Michael

Contradiction

This article contradicts itself, specifically when dealing with the origin of the word. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davodd (talk • contribs) 15:38, August 8, 2006

I agree and have added the appropriate template. Hopefully the matter will be cleaned up. Sbrools 21:51, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

AfD

The referral for deletion was from User:Ideaperson. It may, possibly, be related to the fact that I referred for deletion an article that she created, Wan Wan, and that I identify as lesbian on my userpage.

Since she didn't give her reason for the AfD in the preloaded debate, I offer her comments on my talk page, which give her reasons for the AfD: "you should rat on this page because i think it's extremely disgraceful to Wikipedia & defamitory in the public domain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyke_%28lesbian%29 All the references are erroneuos and nonsence material. and I quote" Diesel dyke – more likely to present as butch who most likely drives a truck" do you call this resourceful? This is made up information. it's rediculous and insulting If the page remains up."

I'm not removing or completing the AfD, since I'm personally involved in this little dispute, but anyone who wants to do either will have my blessing. -FisherQueen 13:36, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Nominations must be made in good faith, however it has been several day's since the first step of the AfD nomination began, with other steps left incomplete. A Reminder was also placed on the nominators Talk Page. Since Nominations follow a three stage process, and the nominator has been active on Wikipedia withought compleating the nomination process, the Wikipedia:Guide_to_deletion#Nomination notes Incomplete nominations may be discarded or ignored. So it has been removed--Hu12 10:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Hillary Clinton

Why was the picture of Hilary Clinton removed?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.8.158.27 (talk • contribs) 14:51, 27 December 2006.

Because this is an encyclopedia article, and we require cited, verifiable information, not personal attacks. Fan-1967 14:53, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced Statements

I took care of the unsourced statements. There were only 2 as of this day in may. I will not include my name. No need to thank me. I rule, 'nuff said

Dyke On A Bike

Except For Being Funny Isnt That Offensive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.151.71 (talk) 02:18, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

No, it refers to the Dykes on Bikes. Banjiboi 23:18, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Trans Dyke

I was confused as to the chromosomal gender of the trans dyke. Is this a man who has been altered to appear female and still retains an attraction to females; or is it a female who has been altered to appear male and remains a lesbian? Basejumper2 (talk) 22:40, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Putting some of the problematic assumptions aside it's a term, like "fag" or "queer" that can be used to refer to oneself, a friend or even disparagingly towards others. Use of the label alone cannot infer gender or sexuality. Banjiboi 23:21, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Stealth Dyke?

Can anyone confirm that this is in modern usage? NYC dyke here and have never heard this.

69.112.164.135 (talk) 11:14, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

all manner of qualifiers, fitness dyke, corporate dyke, country dyke, etc., are in use so I see no reason to doubt that stealth dyke is in use presently. For the article's purposes we would need a source. Banjeboi 04:22, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Addition to Increasing Acceptance

I would just like to add on to the given information about the growing acceptance of the term in society.

While it still holds a relatively negative connotation, there are in fact a large number of homosexual women who prefer this term. In fact, in Barbara Raab's article "Sticks & Stones and Dykes," she mentions Joan Nestle, editor and activist in the LGBT community for almost 50 years. Nestle says, "...in the late '70's younger women proudly reclaimed the word 'dyke.' ...Young women full of strength and home... emptied the word of its bigotry and fear, replacing it with community and self-affirmation."

Here is the URL to the full article : http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/2703/sticks_stones_and_dykes/

Also, Alison Bechdel writes a weekly comic strip named "Dykes to Watch Out For," using linguistic activism to spread the term "Dyke" around her community.

All of this is not to say that the term could not be used offensively. Of course, there is still a great population of homosexual women who would be greatly insulted when called a dyke, but in general the word is slowly becoming more accepted in today's society. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annierw (talk • contribs) 23:06, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Contemporary usage :- US Rap Artist Kanye West uses the term 'blonde dyke' in his single 'Stronger'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.115.18.147 (talk) 08:47, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

But what assurances have we that this is intended to be understood in the positive, enlightened usage as against the old-fashioned, offensive one?

Nuttyskin (talk) 14:10, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I think he was just looking for something to rhyme with Klondike. –xeno^talk 14:16, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

It may have gone the other way that he needed something to rhyme with blond dyke. -- Banjeboi 20:47, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

The increasing visibility of the use as a positive descriptor by lesbians themselves would seem compelling. Two examples I'm aware is Dykes on Bikes which is used internationally and often leads pride parades and the Pat Bond Memorial Old Dyke Award since 1992. -- Banjeboi 20:47, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

"Reappropriated?" Need citation to put it back in

Apparently, this article's claim that the slang term has been "reappropriated" has been referred to outside of Wikipedia-> [9] . Without any citation here, and only one reference for the preceding sentence, I'm going to be bold and take it out. This is a word that still primarily acts as a slur. -- Fuzheado | Talk 19:13, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Actually that sentence (which I took out) contradicts a line later in the article in this section: Dyke_(slang)#Increasing_acceptance - "Popular culture still uses dyke as an offensive word, however." -- Fuzheado | Talk 19:17, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm sure that the person who added the text you removed did so because of the following line that preceded it: "However, some persons attempt to use it in a manner that they see as positive, or as a neutral synonym for lesbian." That line has a WP:Reliable source that supports it. Reappropriation does not have to mean that the term has been reappropriated by the entire group. There are likely always going to be people who find the term dyke, in reference to lesbian women and other women sexually attracted to women, offensive, especially depending on who is using the term and how they are using it; that also applies to other terms mentioned in the Reappropriation article. That's why the text you removed stated, "To some extent, the word has been reappropriated." Like the Reappropriation article states, "Reappropriation is the cultural process by which a group reclaims—re-appropriates—terms or artifacts that were previously used in a way disparaging of that group." That is what has been done with the term dyke. And though I don't count as a reliable source for this information, I've certainly heard and seen (as in writing) lesbian and other queer (another term that has been reappropriated) women refer to lesbian or other queer women as "dykes" without offense being meant.

I see that you have changed the text about acceptance,[10][11] and I'm fine with that, though I did tweak your wording in the lead (and meant "no one" instead of "no" in my edit summary). I'll let WP:LGBT know that some comments are needed from them on this matter. Flyer22 (talk) 19:53, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarifying edit. Before this fix, we had the conundrum that the text in third section was clearer and more definitive than the one in the first paragraph, which should not be the case. That said, someone who stopped reading early on would get the impression that it might be a toss-up as to whether the term was offensive. I'd venture to say it should still be considered offensive, and for certain more edgy groups (ie. bikers) they have succesfully reappropriated the term for their own use. But the way it was written before made it sound like the larger lesbian community had been successful in defusing the word, which I don't see as the case. Of course, the best thing is to source and cite liberally to make the point. It wasn't being made. -- Fuzheado | Talk 20:22, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

No problem. And, yes, I completely understand your points. Further on the point of tweaking the lead, do you mind getting rid of the wording with regard to "attempts," since it's not so much that some women are attempting to use the term dyke as a neutral synonym for lesbian, but rather that some do? Flyer22 (talk) 00:21, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Self-reversion, since RussBot is smarter and better informed than i

   My thinking about piping a link to a Rdr that points to a Dab was not stupid, but a sound and by now well-tested argument at User:RussBot#About_the_hatnote_task is much smarter than i. I now know that my first impulse, to explain away here the garble that i slipped and saved as the comment on the first of my two edits, would just sow futher confusion. My bad, and lesson learned. Rah, Russbot! (even if i might have included the link above, inside a comment -- which it's probably too late by now, for helping more than a few of us who tend to forget that WP will probably keep growing smarter a lot longer than the first 9 years).
--Jerzy•t 03:19, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

•    "... 9 years"??? WTF is this jerk talking about?
  --Jerzy•t 01:30, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
  

Inappropriate for an encyclopedia

One sentence reads:

"In Another Mother Tongue, Judy Grahn proposed that the word bulldyke might have arisen from the name of the Celtic queen Boadicea, but this theory is implausible."

Two references are given, but that is irrelevant to my point. To use the word "implausible" as though something either is, or is not, implausible, is not a factual description, and so it is not appropriate for an encyclopedia. This is a matter of opinion -- no matter how widely the opinion may be shared by experts.

What is appropriate to say -- if true -- is that, e.g., ". . . but several experts in etymology have stated that this theory is implausible.[refs. go here]"Daqu (talk) 19:19, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

This is putting the cart before the horse. See WP:FRINGE. Grahn is proposing an etymology, and she seems to be alone in endorsing it. When a hypothesis is endorsed by none else but the originator, and that originator is not even an expert (on etymology, historical linguistics or English slang in this case), it is the definition of fringe. In order to demonstrate that a hypothesis is established, you need to find other scholars (experts) who agree. The burden of evidence is on you who wish to add a hypothesis, not on others who doubt the acceptance (or merit) of a hypothesis.

If a hypothesis is fringe, let alone obvious nonsense, you will be hard-pressed to find scholars commenting on it unless the hypothesis is extremely notable in the wider world. So the principle you imply, namely that the doubters have to prove that experts consider a hypothesis implausible, would lead to almost any nutty hypothesis ever appearing in print being included, which is an obviously undesirable outcome. I mean, how many scholars have ever explicitly repudiated the Hollow Earth hypothesis, the moon-made-of-green-cheese hypothesis or the conspiracy theory that Nazis have UFOs and bases in Antarctica and on the moon? Come on! Scholars have better things to do than comment on such silliness.

The only scholarly source commenting appreciatively on the Boudicca/bulldyke suggestion I could find is this one, however, Carolyn D. Williams is primarily an expert in English literature, not linguistics. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:07, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Nyc18 dykemarch-4798.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:22, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

"deleting sourced info"

@Pyxis Solitary: Can you please let me know what sourced info you are talking about?[12] The only sourced material I deleted was the quote from the book Home to Harlem, as I thought it would be more useful to quote from the first appearance of bulldyke instead, which I added. Kaldari (talk) 13:25, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

I self-reverted. I'd misread part of it. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 08:51, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Julia Stanley paragraph

@Pyxis Solitary: If you read the Julia Stanley article, you will see that it has nothing to do with the etymology (i.e. the origin) of the word dyke, nor does it relate to the derogatory use of the word by straight people. The way we are presenting her research is misleading. Her paper examines how the use of the word dyke differs between male homosexuals and lesbians (albeit in 1970). Since you will not allow me to edit this article, I'm asking that you correct the paragraph to accurately reflect Stanley's research and present it in a logical context within the article. Also, I would like to ask that you read the Wikipedia policy Wikipedia:Ownership of content. It would be nice if we could collaborate on improving this article instead of just having you revert every edit I make. Assuming we are both trying to improve this article in good faith, let's discuss how we can make it better instead of just edit warring and butting heads. Kaldari (talk) 22:16, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

"Since you will not allow me to edit this article". Don't be such a drama queen. You decided that you knew better than any editor who has edited this article, including the original editor that contributed the Stanley material. Since your statement implies that you have read her study, why don't you provide a link to the entire article so that we can all read it without hurdles.
"I would like to ask that you read the Wikipedia policy Wikipedia:Ownership of content." Don't lecture me. I've been editing Wikipedia a lot longer than you have.
I don't agree with the edits you've made to this article. You deleted information that was sourced (e.g."The earliest account of dagger in this context stems from an account in 1348 by Henry Knighton"). You editorialized and injected unsourced content (e.g. "In 1969, people in the gay community began to revolt against police harassment and demand civil rights. This led to the formation of activist organizations such as the Gay Liberation Front and Gay Activists Alliance"). "Good faith" ends when editors delete legitimate content and try to turn articles into personal essays. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 06:49, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Technically, I've been editing Wikipedia for about 5 years longer, but I don't think it's worth splitting hairs :) The sentence I deleted about the word dagger misrepresents the source. According to the source, the 1348 account by Henry Knighton is the earliest recorded use of dagger, not the earliest use of dagger in relation to male genitalia. Knighton's use is not related to male genitalia. Thus the sentence is an unneeded digression as it doesn't tell us anything about the etymology of dyke. The two sentences about the origins of the gay liberation movement were to add context to Stanley's paper, which is largely about the politicization of gay and lesbian slang in the 1970s. It's true that it could have benefitted from having a cited source, but I would hardly call it turning the article into a personal essay! Thanks for creating the gallery. I think that's a nice solution rather than trying to cram all the dyke march photos into that one little section. And now I can add some of my own dyke march photos! Kaldari (talk) 17:38, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

And if you need access to JSTOR, you can use the Wikipedia Library. Kaldari (talk) 17:56, 8 September 2020 (UTC)