Talk:Duyfken

earlier comments

Image request for the replica in Perth.--Commander Keane 11:20, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Done. Nachoman-au 06:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

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VOC data

Two ships appear in the archives of VOC that matches the timeline of beginning 1600.

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Duifje - 1594 (1594 Duifje; 1598 Overijssel) Scheepstype: pinas In gebruik bij de VOC vanaf 1595 tot na 06/1602. Gebouwd op de werf te Amsterdam. laadvermogen: 50 ton bemanning: ca 20 koppen bewapening: 10 stukken

Beschrijving: De Duifje maakte deel uit van de vloot van vier schepen (Mauritius, Hollandia, Amsterdam en Duyfken) van de Compagnie van Verre, de zgn. Eerste Schipvaart, o.l.v. Cornelis de Houtman, die van 1595 tot 1597 de eerste reis naar Indië maakte. Het schip werd ook wel het "cleyne jacht" genoemd. De Amsterdam is in brand gestoken, maar de overige drie schepen keerden in Patria terug. De schipper van de Duifje was Simon Lambertsz. Mau. Bij aankomst na de eerste reis was het schip nog in goede staat. Als "Overijssel" nam zij deel aan de zgn. Tweede Schipvaart (van 1 mei 1598 tot 19/07/1599) van de Oude Compagnie en maakte daarna nog een reis.

Reisgegevens: reis vertrek op van naar aankomst op kamer schipper 1 02/04/1595 Texel Engano 06/061596 Simon Lambrechtsz. Mau

 via: Maio (Kaap Verde) van 26/04/1595 tot 27/04/1595 
 Mosselbaai van 04/08/1595 tot 11/08/1595 
 Ampalazabaai van 13/09/1595 tot 07/10/1595 
 S. Augustins Baai van 09/10/1595 tot 13/12/1595 
 Sainte Marie van 11/01/1596 tot 21/01/1596 
 Baai van Antongil van 23/01/1596 tot 23/01/1596 

1 25/02/1597 Bali Texel 11/08/1597 Cornelis Adriaansz. 2 01/05/1598 Texel Bantam 26/11/1598 Simon Jansz. Hoen 2 12/01/1599 Bantam Texel 19/07/1599 Simon Jansz. Hoen

 via: St. Helena van 26/04/1599 tot 04/05/1599 

3 21/12/1599 Texel Bantam 01/09/1600 Thijmen Michielsz. 3 09/09/1601 Bantam 06/1602 Thijmen Michielz.

And a later one:

Duifje - 1601 Scheepstype: jacht In gebruik bij de VOC vanaf 1601 tot 07/1608 (VERGAAN). laadvermogen: 50 ton bemanning: ca 15 koppen bewapening: 6 stukken

Beschrijving: Men neemt aan dat dit schip niet dezelfde is als de Duifken die gebouwd is in 1594. In Australië is in Fremantle een replica van dit schip gemaakt. Tijdens het VOC-herdenkingsjaar 2002 bracht dit schip een bezoek aan diverse havenplaatsen in Nederland.

De Duyfken maakte deel uit van de vloot van de Oude Compagnie, bestaande uit Gelderland, Zeelandia, Wachter, Duifken en Utrecht, o.l.v. Wolfert Harmensz, die op 23 april 1601 vertrok.

De moderne geschiedenis van Australië begon op 26 februari 1606, toen kapitein Willem Jansz. van de Verenigde Oostindische Compagnie met zijn schip Duyfken toevallig bij Cape York terecht kwam. Ook al noemde hij de plek 'keerweer', het feit dat hij hier voet aan wal zette - 164 jaar voor de reizen van de Engelsman James Cook - betekende voor Australië de allereerste ontmoeting met een Europees schip. De Duyfken was vanuit Banda (nu een Indonesisch eiland, 850 kilometer ten noorden van Darwin) naar het oosten gestuurd, om de zuidelijke kust van Nieuw-Guinea te verkennen. Maar zoals Columbus in 1492 in de veronderstelling verkeerde in India te zijn beland, zo dacht kapitein Jansz. dat het stuk land waar hij nu op gestuit was een deel moest zijn van de mysterieuze kust van Nieuw-Guinea. Boven de vroegst bekende kaart van een deel van Australië stond dan ook 'Nova Guinea'. Tegenwind had de Duyfken echter naar het zuiden gedreven. Wat Willem Jansz. in kaart bracht was ongetwijfeld de oostelijke kust van het Cape York schiereiland. Nadat Jansz. twintig bemanningsleden had verloren bij het eerste treffen tussen Europeanen en de Australische aboriginals, besloot hij onmiddelijk te vertrekken. Meer Nederlandse ontdekkingsreizen volgden, zowel langs de noord- als langs de westkust van Nieuw-Holland. Historisch onderzoek dat door en voor het Duyfken Replica Project is uitgevoerd bracht aan het licht dat de Duyfken, na haar ontdekking van Cape York in 1606, is teruggezeild naar Banda. De boot maakte daarna deel uit van een Nederlandse vloot die de Portugezen van de zuidelijke specerijen eilanden verdreef. In 1607 was de 'Duijfken' voor Ternate. De Duifje bleef na haar eerste uitreis voor de VOC in Indië. De Duyfken verging tenslotte in juli 1608.

Reisgegevens: reis vertrek op van naar aankomst op kamer schipper 1 23/04/1601 Texel Bantam 26/12/1601 Willem Kornelisz. Schouten 1 25/08/1602 Bantam Vlissingen 17/02/1603 Willem Cornelisz. Schouten

 Bij Kaap Agulhas raakte de Duifje de rest van de vloot (Gelderland en Zeelandia) kwijt en voer alleen naar Zeeland. 

1 18/12/1603 Texel Bantam 11/12/1604 Amsterdam Willem Janszoon

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It looks like that the two ships are inter mixed in this page and need to be corrected with more conclusive information. Even the replica VOC Duyfken site www.duyfken.com is using a mix of these two ship, or is the VOC history database wrong? User:Scubafish (sig added)

I think that you may well be right, and there is some conflation of different ships in this article (and also perhaps in the quoted references, The Dutch VOC site and Duyfken replica site. Also, the mention of this also being the ship used by Willem Schouten when he rounded and named Cape Horn is at odds with other sources, which give the name of his vessel in this enterprise as the Eendracht. Could certainly use some further investigation.--cjllw | TALK 2005 July 8 09:03 (UTC)

I agree with you on all points, I would like to investigate further, but I'm based outside the Netherlands and dont have the "luxury" to go in to the archives in Holland and do a snoop around. User:Scubafish

Willem Schouten

I have removed the below sentence from the article, which states that this is the same ship Schouten used to round Cape Horn:

• On its first voyage in 1601 to the Spice Islands under the command of Willem Schouten it discovered and named Cape Horn after the city of Hoorn.

Other references on Schouten give the Eendracht as the name of his ship in this enterprise. Authorative reference should be sought to ascertain which is so, and the passage can be restored if it so turns out. --cjllw | TALK 07:37, 2005 July 12 (UTC)

As a postscript, it seems that the [Duyfken replica site has now modified its timeline of the original ship, and removed the erroneous reference to Willem Schouten.--cjllw | TALK 23:45, 2005 July 26 (UTC)

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There were 2 ships confused on this page. These details are from the book Sent forth a dove (1999) ISBN 1 876268 24 7 (hardcover) or 25 5 (paperback):

Duyfken (1) - Yacht. 3 masts. 50-60 tons. Laid down May 1594, launched and fitted out c. end Feb 1595 at Uylenburg, Netherlands. Was on voyage in 1595 (?) with 3 other ships (Hollandia, Mauritius, Amsterdam), returned to Netherlands. Renamed Overijssel c. 1598.

Duyfken (2) - Yacht. 60 tons, 30 lasten (cargo space). Built around 1599-1600. Captain Willem Jansz (not sure when exactly). Was on voyage in 1601 with 4 other ships (Gelderland, Zeelandia, Utrecht, Wachter), and was in battle with them against Portuguese at Bantam Bay 27 Dec 1601. Was in another fleet in 1606 and sailed across to Australia that year. Damaged by undersea volcanic eruption 1 July 1608 and taken to Ternate, Indonesia for repairs but broken up there because of damage in around July 1608. SpookyMulder 10:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Editors comments under See Also section

I removed these comments to this page as some of it it appeared on the main page... I have 'x' out the email address.

Ship replica (including a list of ship replicas)

1.Please consider the following: the "national group" mentioned in this section, that is organising the Duyfken replica commemorative voyage, ( due to arrive in Sydney on 11 December) is Australia on the Map 1606-2006

Its website could be referred to under that notion of national group:

you will find it perticularly informative and worthwhile linking to. any questions xxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com,au

2. VOC translated as Dutch East India Company may be quite common, but also quite wrong. East India Company suggests in English something focussing on the east of India. VOC stands for Vereenigde Oost-indische Compagnie.

This means litterally United East-indies Company or United East-indian Company ( because indische is an adjective) the company focussed on the East-indies, some 17th century notion of the wide area now known as Asia or the Far East. not just the east of India. So I suggest you use for VOC the (Netherlands based) United East-Indies Company. 'United' because about nine competing Dutch companies had merged into one in March 1602, to cut competition.

12:08, 6 December 2006 User:203.129.63.134

Under "Duyfken Replica" It starts in the last para with : "In 2006..." This year is now over and the paragraph should be reviewed, updated. I suggest the following to replace it or information like it:

During 2006 more than 150 public events took place over all Australian States and territories that commemorated the 400 year jubilee of the original arrival of Duyfken and other vessels that followed her. It included a commemorative voyage along the Australian coast calling at 23 ports, lectures, conferences, exhibitions, official presentations, launches and unveilings of plaques and munuments and a blaze of publicity for these hithertoo obscure maritime historical events. Initiated by a community based organisation set up for the purpose (Australia on the Map 1606-2006, a nation-wide network) it inspired the abovementioned events, new specialist websites, a review of educational curriculi on the subject, publication of a long list of books and historical articles, a Royal visit by the Dutch Crown Prince and Princess and an official visit by the Dutch Premier to Australia and also a program of events in the Netherlands.

More information can be found on the last mentioned website below, which will be reviewed by July 2007 and the then still relevant information placed under another URL.

01:51, 31 December 2006 User:203.129.49.138

SauliH 04:41, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Stern—narrow or broad?

The image <StateLibQld_1_117460_Duyfhen_(ship).jpg> (in Gulf of Carpenteria) shows an unusually broad stern. The other images show an unusually narrow stern. Sorry folks! Can't possibly be the same boat. Vagabond nanoda (talk) 02:15, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

That picture is an 1886 artist's impression, no scientific reconstruction. And the present replica is built on much guesswork too, I bet (although a number of details, like the high narrow stern, are known to be typical of the time). Drawings or the like are usually not preserved from that period. 151.177.57.31 (talk) 01:05, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

@151.177.57.31: More than guesswork; see here. Betterkeks (talk) 01:20, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I meant. A number of general or generic details can be supposed and tried out, but some things you have to guess at, not the least of which is how closely your replica matches the original in every detail. 151.177.57.31 (talk) 02:14, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

There seems to have been a lot more care on the research into the design of the replica than one might think. See, for instance, some arguments on design features in [1]. There you will also find links to the studies analysing relevant ship layouts and shapes in appropriate maritime art. This might give more confidence in what was actually built. ThoughtIdRetired _TIR 20:33, 14 June 2024 (UTC)