Talk:Durava

Point of View

This entire article is written in what seems like a Tamil nationalist point of view and is not neutral.

The entire section on low country caste to include Salagama, Karawe, and Durave caste seems to have been written / edited by Tamil nationalists with vested interests. There is no credible (other than myth and pseudo history in the Mahavamsa) evidence to suggest that the entire Sinhalese race is either Aryan or Dravidian. It is possibly a combination of both. Unless genetic research is carried out, the debate over the origins of the Sinhala race cannot be put to rest.

user:Dunuvidihewage 20:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

i noticed user from real ip 37.132.3.6 (National University of Singapore - Surver) is removing/editing some names from "A few prominent members of the Durava community" . please dont let him edit/change this page. and i found out he has done / doing several unwanted things over the wikipedia. below is the link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:137.132.3.6 please help to maintain true informations in wikipedia. and not the personal thoughts thanks .

out of scope

Durave is Cast and its nothing but with speaking languages.so this editor is biased with generalisations people into ethnic groups. "Mainstream Sinhalese speakers claim Indian ethnic origins and are primarily engaged in agriculture. The presence of many service type castes or Jatis like the Durave indicate a complex migration history from India to Sri Lanka."

Eeriyaka (talk) 12:13, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Couldn't agree more. There is a deliberate attempt by this particular user (Taprobanus) to link the Sinhalese to South India and preferably aslo to Tamil Nadu, ignoring all the historical and anthropological evidence and studies, and the living proof found in the country. He doesn't give any references either. He ignores the fact that the Tamil system in Sri Lanka and Tamil Nadu is almost exactly the same, but tries desperately to find similarities with the Sinhalese and Tamil Nadu. SriSuren (talk) 22:04, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

is this new research you are atempt to introduce !

"Mainstream Sinhalese speakers claim Indian ethnic origins and are primarily engaged in agriculture. The presence of many service type castes or Jatis like the Durave indicate a complex migration history from India to Sri Lanka."

i never heard "Mainstream Sinhalese speakers" claim Indian ethnic origins engaged any agriculture in Sri Lanka. could you proof any example . all we know is south Indian "Kalinga Magha" destroyed all the agriculture farms and irritations tanks.

its so funny when we heard such a things ..its no wander this is another atempt of ethnic cleaning and brain wash. but truth is truth.

cuz as we all know south indian migrants came to sri lanka and having all the free (education,health care,transport..etc) benefits ( majority of Sinhalese tax payers money) and forget the past and destroying peaceful environment. Eeriyaka (talk) 04:59, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Misconceptions and false information corrected

Since the contributor Taprobanus is occupied with the etymology of the word durava, it has been stated. It is more probable that the word Durava comes from Pali or Sanskrit, than a Tamil word, which is unrelated and probably foreign to the ancient duravas of Sri Lanka.

These sentences have been deleted:
1. "Many prominent lineages claim martial origins due to their service as soldiers and mercenaries from South India for Sinhalese kingdoms." - If you have references as to which prominent lineages claim what you have stated, please includeag that sentence stating the appropriate reference(s).

2. "Mainstream Sinhalese speakers claim Indian ethnic origins and are primarily engaged in agriculture. The presence of many service type castes or Jatis like the Durave indicate a complex migration history from India to Sri Lanka." - This sentence is totally unecessary and exhibits a tendency you show in all your contributions, namely to create some kind of confusion to the origins of the Sinhalese, without any backinng. Their origin is disputed, mainly by the Tamils, but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Your own speculations and the speculative language you use, does not belong here. Your knowledge about the caste system in Sri Lanka is very limited or you are trying to deliberately mislead the readers. Service type castes are the ones that exists, in the sinhalese population, since castes have no religious bearings as in the Tamil system, therefore it can't be linked only to Madurai and Tamil Nadu, as you have done here and many other places. The Tamil caste system and Sinhalese caste system differ considerably, specially in the way they are practiced. Besides, there are many things which indicate a complex migration pattern from India to Sri Lanka and specially from Tamil Nadu, particularly to the northern areas of Sri Lanka, but one thing which really shows no influence from this migration is the Sinhalese caste system, which does not have any religious bearings, and is a flexible system compared to the rigid religious system, which is practiced by the Tamils of Sri Lanka and Tamil Nadu. Anyway, who are the mainstream Sinhalese? :) SriSuren (talk) 02:51, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Whilst perhaps not artfully phrased, the point of this sentence is in essence one made by Michael Roberts in a series of articles but most completely stated in Caste conflict and elite formation - that the Durava, Karava and Salagama castes are relatively recent immigrants to Sri Lanka, that they were in origin Dravidian groups, that they emigrated to Sri Lanka between the 13th and 18th centuries, and that over time they slid into the rajakariya system and were absorbed by the Sinhala majority. Not all of Michael Roberts' work is without controversy, but this point has, I think, become the mainstream academic view. I do not think removing it from the article is justified, and I'd ask you to consider reintroducing this information. -- Arvind (talk) 19:52, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Arvind, I know what you are telling, and I do agree that some of these castes are/could be new (specially Salagama), and consists mainly of South Indian immigrants. But the way things are presented here, especially by a couple of contributors, does not shed any light on the complicated issue of the origins, on the contrary, it leaves the reader confused. All of these people can't be placed in Tamil Nadu, in one chunck like that, and given Tamil origins, when the equivalent castes/people in Tamil Nadu/south India themselves, trace their origins to other parts of India and all the people in South India itself, are not Tamil. The other thing is if so many people came/were brought to a small area like the south-western coast in Sri Lanka, from Tamil Nadu in a very short time, they would propbably have made their own community, and will be speaking Tamil, like the plantation Tamils, unless the Sinhalese were strong and many in number from before, and forcefully converted them to Buddhism and made them speak Sinhalese. In no time in history, has Buddhism been forced on people. When it comes to the constant reference to Sinhalisation, or getting absorbed into the Sinhala population, it indicates that the Sinhalese were both a very strong and an open and accomadating society, which new migrants wanted to belong to. Anyway, if these people were Tamils at the time of the British as implied here, and were looking for better opportunities during that period, the last thing they would do is to get Sinhalised, as it was much easier to remain Tamil and get into higher positions. What ever their origins were, they were Sinhalese at the time of the British.

The agreed theory is that the migration has been gradual and the assimilation has gone without trouble. The Sinhala kings themselves have got people from South India to come and settle in these areas, after depopulations due to wars, even in the Portugues time, and given them land. The example you mention is for the Salagams. Anyway the nonexistence of Hindus amoung these Sinhalese makes what the other contributor has written confusing.

This article like many others on Sri Lanka and the Sinhalese people are all started by Taprobanus and a couple of other Tamils. Especially the ones started by Taprobanus, seem to be started in a real hurry and is written in a very amateurish way, revealing the purpose of starting these articles, namely to give a distorted idea about the origins of the Sinhalese people and their history, and place them in Tamil Nadu. Sinhalese people are not Tamils, they have their own culture, religion and history. In a way I think it is best to leave all these articles the way they are, and use them as study cases to show how new versions of Sri Lankan history is manufactured. Most of these articles are like reading a court case, where they are accusing the Sinhalese people for something or the other. I mean, look at the wording....

The previous version was very confusing and misleading to the reader, as it jumps from one sentence to another. It says "The etymology of the Sinhalese word Durave or Durava has no clear meaning. In Tamil language Dorai stands for a headman and Madurai is a popular town in the Pandya kingdom. Early colonial literature recorded the Durave as Palanquin பல்லக்கு bearers from Madurai or Malabar coast of Kerala, although they were wrongly associated with Toddy tapping by the Portuguese colonial time". The contributor further refers to jatis and service type castes, in an odd way, further confusing the reader. Anyway how can cheifs be Palaquin bearers? And what does Durava mean in Tamil? And if they came from Madurai and were Palaquin bearers there too, won't it be more natural that they kept their caste name or got absorbed into the Durava caste, which already existed? Anyway the Sinhalese caste system has almost no resemblance to the Hindu Varna system, although it is assumed that with Vijaya's arrival that this system would have been introduced and later with the introduction of Buddhism, lost its significance.

The etymology: Dorai (துரை) is not pronouced like 'D' but more like 'th' or a combination of D/th. Any word coming from that would most probably have a "th" pronouciation too. It seems as though that the Tamil word துரை (Dorai) is also derived from Dhurya, but Dhurya => துரை => Dhurava is less plausible than both Dhurya => Dhurava or Dhura => Dhurava. The Pali Dhura is the most plausible origin, the common ending -va is added to it in the Sinhala word.

I have no objection to adding the information about the different origin myths, but the language should not be the one used here, with repetitive use of the word "claiming" and there should be a flow in the article and an genuine interest to write about the subject, not just this very evident and persistent need to just write something to connect everything Sinhalese to Tamil Nadu. ( There are instances where some of these people write pure Sinhalese words in Tamil script :) ). As said the Sinhalese people are an ethnicity by themselves, with little bearing to Tamils in Tamil Nadu, although they have assimilated a good many Tamils and others from India, which debunks the other Tamil stories about the Sinhalese being intolerant and the Sinhalese kingdoms being something weak. SriSuren (talk) 23:43, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmmmm! check Karava online [[1]] site which you give more clarifications on Indian [Tamil] immigrants caste in Sinhala community. I dont know about Durava, but Karava, Salagama are immigrated from Tamil Nadu and Kerala. Also don't confuse all Sri Lankan Tamils immigrated from India. Read Indrapala's book regarding these misunderstanding problems. you ll get an idea.--BlueLankan 01:09, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Does it really matter if the Sri Lankan Tamils immigrated from India, when the origin story of the Sinhalese, makes them essentially immigrants too, at least partly? The only true indeginous people of Sri Lanka are the Veddhas, who are totally ignored. I have seen the site you mention site before - they are not referring to any Tamil migrant castes, they are claiming origins from the blue blooded Kauruva Kshastrias of North India, but take an essential detour through Kerala and South India. Read that site, they have some good information you can make use of, for example in the Jaffna Kingdom article :). This type of caste hierachy discussions and disputes arise amoung the Sinhalese because in their Buddhist society the caste was not an essential issue and was not a rigid fixed thing, as with Hindu societies. The immigrants from South India, throughout history has been quickly assimilated, which again shows that people were open and kind. They even let them make their own castes and now they are so integrated that nobody knows who they are.... But, honestly, look at the first two sentences in the article here, and the way they are formulated. There is no logic nor purpose in mixing in Jatis here, in that way. The person who has written these articles about Sinhalese castes, is just exposing his contempt for the Sinhalese and his lack of knowledge about the Indian caste system in general. He is desperately trying to make pararells in the Sinhalese caste system to the Hindu South India and to connect it to immigration of people in a bizarre way. The lack of an equivalent caste in India is not mentioned, but he tries to mislead the reader by the mentioning the Dorai story. Everybody in the Sinhala society couldn't have been cinnamon peelers and palanquin bearers, given the enormous task it was to keep the various invaders away and protect the Sinhalese Buddhist way of life in their own country. This would require a good deal of soldiers and warriors. Everything shows that they were infact not hostile towards Tamils or others who came in friendship as traders, workers and other immigrants. I have read some of Indrapala. I have no confusion what so ever as to who the Tamils are - it is some Tamils and some Sinhalese who seem to have that problem. --SriSuren (talk) 23:08, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Etymology of the word Durava - Durava has no clear meaning in Tamil

This part: "The etymology of the Sinhalese word Durave or Durava has no clear meaning. In Tamil language Dorai stands for a headman and Madurai is a popular town in the Pandya kingdom. Early colonial literature recorded the Durave as Palanquin பல்லக்கு bearers from Madurai or Malabar coast of Kerala," has been deleted. Because:

1. Durave has absolutely no clear meaning in Tamil, either. Moreover The sentence makes no sense at all. It jumps from mentioning the Tamil word Dorai meaning chief to Palanquin bearers in Madurai. Anyway a Sinhalese word will not have an etymology in Tamil, if the word is of Tamil origin, it will be a loan word. How the Tamil Thurais from Madurai became a caste of Palanquin bearers called Duruva in Sri lanka is not explained. The effort to link the Tamil word "Thurai" to Duruva, when there is the word Dhura meaning the same in Pali which the Sinhalese language comes from, is ridiculous. An explaination must be given.

2. Source is not cited.

If you put your sentence back the most plausible etymology which is from the Pali word Dhura must also be mentioned. I can do that, my source being the Pali dictionary.

Cite your source with the page number, and replace the sentence. Uncited claims and misquoted distortions must be avoided. --SriSuren (talk) 21:48, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

meaning of durava

durava word come from word dhura in pali which means office.the names of durava shows that they had held offices during the time of southern kingdom.that's why they are abundant in southern region.toddy tappers imported from south India is a myth.Samanpress (talk) 18:10, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

According to my knowledge Durava cast is Dura Ratakin Apu Warigaya. Sylvester Wijesinghe. novus@slt.lk — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.231.124.233 (talk) 03:05, 11 December 2013 (UTC) I will like to know the reason for removing the published the noble people of Durava cast.Few years ago list of names were their on this page. Sylvester Wijesinghe.

Please read WP:V and note WP:OR - these are cornerstones of Wikipedia. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 10:05, 27 July 2015 (UTC)