Talk:Dumfriesshire

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I count four?

Dumfries had three traditional subdivisions - Annandale, Eskdale, Dumfries and Galloway and Nithsdale. Three subdivisions but Four links???MisterHOP (talk) 08:52, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Dumfriesshire

Hi, I have seen an error on your page referring to Dumfriesshire as a “county” this is not accurate as Scotland has no “counties” could you please correct this? thank you Samanthajaneh1 (talk) 22:26, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the historic county, not about any modern political entity. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:34, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Counties live! WisDom-UK (talk) 22:46, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Samanthajaneh1, Mutt Lunker, and WisDom-UK: I think some differentiation is in order. I think it would be appropriate to use one or more of the hatnote templates, such as {{About-distinguish}} & {{For2}}.

Given the {{Update-EB}} template that places the article into Category:1911 Britannica articles needing updates from March 2016, I think some modernization is necessary. For instance it might be better to have something like "Dumfriesshire or the County of Dumfries ... was a historic county and is a registration county and lieutenancy area of Scotland."

Peaceray (talk) 15:02, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, "is" is correct, the meaning is apparent in the term "historic county", rather than "county", and the linked article makes it abundantly clear what is meant, if needed. The lede reflects the current status; don't be confused that it is the 1911 status, if that's what you were thinking. And I'm assuming @WisDom-UK:'s comment is a joke. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:10, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No sir, the counties continue to exist as much-cherished historical, cultural and social institutions, separate from ever-changing areas of local government administration (see http://county-wise.org.uk/counties/ and https://britishcountyflags.com/county-definitions/). WisDom-UK (talk) 18:52, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, not joking but you would agree that the proposed amendment is misconceived? Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:31, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, forgoing the lead wording change, what about some hatnotes to distinguish the historical/registration county & lieutenancy from the current administrative entities like Dumfries and Galloway, Dumfries and Galloway (UK Parliament constituency), & Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (UK Parliament constituency)? Right now I think it is confusing to most readers that something has superseded Dumfriesshire. It deserves something explanatory upfront. Peaceray (talk) 20:59, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have proposed wordings? Mutt Lunker (talk) 21:06, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@WisDom-UK Sorry but that is categorically false. “Counties” is an English/Irish thing. There is no “Counties” here in Scotland...none. Zilch. There is towns, reigons, cities etc.. Samanthajaneh1 (talk) 21:35, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Are you talking about the current political status or otherwise of counties (discussed above) or are you claiming that the notion of historical counties and their pre-1975 political status is a fiction? Mutt Lunker (talk) 09:15, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Samanthajaneh1 I beg to differ. Counties began as an English thing, true. However the shire system was later applied to Wales, Scotland and Ireland. In the whole UK + ROI the traditional counties are treated with great affection and respect, superseding any earlier or later local administrative entities. Ironically it is in Ireland where the system has been preserved and entered into local affections the most. Even in Northern Ireland, both sides uphold the 'six counties', even though they were long ago replaced (as administrative entities) with different local gov areas. In terms of wording I see nothing wrong with the current one. If it was changed similar changes would need to be enacted for all 90-odd historic UK counties.WisDom-UK (talk) 18:24, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]