Talk:Downton Abbey

In Popular Culture

The Simpsons featured a parody of Downton Abbey called "Upon Rectory" in the episode Dangers on a Train. The episode also features an end gag where Homer walks onto a parody title card "Simpton Abbey" (https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Dangers_on_a_Train/Gallery?file=Dangers_on_a_Train_99.JPG)

https://simpsonswiki.com/wiki/Upton_Rectory — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7E:3696:3C00:D995:C6F4:4D47:F0FA (talk) 21:16, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

It's interesting but the sourcing doesn't really establish WP:POPCULTURE notability.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 09:36, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

"Series" in a "series"?

Why has no one resolved the confusing redundancy in the British use of the term "series" to describe both a television show and its yearly episodes (elsewhere referred to as "seasons")? How could anyone object to the adoption of a second term? Is there some sentimentality associated with the double use? I can't think of another reason why the practice would persist. A film trailer is technically a "film", but it's never referred to that way—otherwise people would be saying things like, "Have you seen the film for the new film…?” I mean, golly—if you don't want to imitate the Yanks (who created them, BTW), make up a new word. Just call it something different, will you? [end of rant] – AndyFielding (talk) 12:07, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Serial usually does the trick. Cnbrb (talk) 12:47, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

We're still working on sorting out "hood", "bonnet", "boot" and "trunk". One thing at a time, please! — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 11:48, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Cora Crawley and her jewishness

Why does her Cora Levinson's jewishness not get mentioned here? Her family's wealth saved the Crawleys, didn't it? XYZ2023 (talk) 09:07, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes it did, and that fact is mentioned in the series 1 description. What exact connection do you wish the article to make between that and Jewishness? Sbishop (talk) 09:27, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Where exactly is the fact mentioned? I am sorry, I cannot find it, also not here: Downton Abbey (series 1), if that is, what you are referring to. (Apologies for my weak English!). Last not least: as I mentioned above: The Levinsons' wealth saved the Crawleys and the family estate, didn't it? Isn't that remarkable in a way? --XYZ2023 (talk) 09:36, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

The series 1 description says:

...Robert Crawley, Earl of Grantham, had resolved his father's past financial difficulties by marrying Cora Levinson, an American heiress.

That is the reference to the Crawley family being bailed out by Cora's dowry.

There was nothing remarkable about such occurrences - a number of British aristocratic families got financial injections from the daughters of rich Americans (eg the Churchills). There are books based on this trend, eg Edith Wharton's book 'The Buccaneers'. It is not clear why this is affected by Cora being Jewish or not Jewish. It was certainly relevant that she was American, because of the trend I have mentioned.Sbishop (talk) 09:47, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

So in fact her jewishness does not get mentioned despite your "Yes it did", and you are even looking like you want to provide a reference for that, but then you are retracting: "It is not clear why this is affected by … ."

I have not enough academical knowledge, of which specific background these American ladies have, so I leave it there.

But it's more than just a fun-fact, that "this wealthy Jew" manages to save an aristocratic family and their estate. What a pity, that you don't back me up in my attempt to include a tiny and respectful note.--XYZ2023 (talk) 11:04, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

My 'Yes it did' comment was an answer to your second question about saving the Crawleys being mentioned, not your first question about Jewishness being mentioned.

It's open to any editor to make changes to an article, but they are likely to be reverted unless relevance is demonstrated, particularly when the issues involved are sensitive ones. Sbishop (talk) 11:21, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Sbishop, for your friendly and patient willingness to talk to me on this matter.

Well, you certainly recognise I am here to discuss with you my possible future addition regarding the detail in question.

I am not sure, how many other aristocratic family stories are getting presented on UK broadcasting stations, but isn't it a bit peculiar, that this one has an Earl's spouse of Jewish origin; and you are reckoning, this detail is too sensitive to get mentioned – honestly? I mean: younger generations do not get it immediately, that "Levinson" is a an exclusively Jewish surname, and it might we worth giving that Jewish family the honour of getting recognised as "the Jewish-American family Levinson" or alike. That is what I am trying to achieve. Anybody here to second me?--XYZ2023 (talk) 11:51, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

I didn't say it was too sensitive to mention, I said it need to be relevant. The article later on mentions clearly the Jewishness of Atticus and his family, because that is highly relevant to the storyline of several episodes, indeed is a major theme.Sbishop (talk) 11:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks again for your patience and friendliness!

I am getting the impression, you are doubting the "relevance", but you are not saying so expressis verbis.

Come on, Sbishop, it is odd, that "the Jew" not only marries into an aristocratic family, but also saves the family's shiny existence, isn't it? Isn't that worth just a minimal respect? (Shylock …)

If I am going to change "an American heiress" to "a Jewish-American heiress", will you revert it? Maybe I can get you to help me creating a change of a kind, so that it is rather unlikely to get reverted. Will you, please?! 🙏 --XYZ2023 (talk) 12:24, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

There is something about this makes me uncomfortable, possibly what feels like over-emphasis on Cora possibly being Jewish. The show made very little of Cora's religious heritage, and she never said she was Jewish; instead, we saw her in the Church of England with Robert suggesting she is a practicing Christian. Moreover, the only mention of Jewish heritage by both Cora and her mother is that Cora's father was Jewish. Even when the family was addressing Atticus's family being Jewish, the only time Cora's Jewish heritage might have been significant, all she does is gently remind Robert that her father was Jewish.

There is nothing to indicate Cora identifies as Jewish, either ethnically or religiously. So to refer to her as Jewish-American is both inappropriate and inaccurate, given what we've seen in dialogue and in action which indicate Cora is a Christian. Consequently, I would revert any edit referring to Cora as Jewish-American. --Dr.Margi ✉ 16:41, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your answer, DrMargi!

There is something about this, that makes me in reverse uncomfortable – "over-emphasis" … – are you serious?

Do you know the duck test? This applies to somebody carrying a jewish surname like Cohen, Levi, and Levinson. Don't you make yourself ridiculous by denying this! And you must not regard this a personal attack!

Actually all this sounds to me like "christian normative society" dominating minorities. If you see Cora in church, that does not make her christian. Have you ever been in a mosque or a synagogue? That does not make you a muslim or a jew, right? Cora can quite well accompany her husband to any event without signing the resp. organisation's dogmatic fundamentals and without being a proper member.

Why does it actually make you feel uncomfortable, that a jewish family saved the Crawleys? Well, I know, you did not say that "at all". You have your ways around getting explicit.

Thanks for the discussion! I sort of enjoy it. XYZ2023 (talk) 16:57, 26 July 2023 (UTC)