Talk:Doug Fister/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Canada Hky (talk) 03:20, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Quick Fail Criteria

I see no issues with this article that would cause an issue here, so I will continue with a more thorough review.

Full Review

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Looks pretty good here, just a few issues that are pointed out below.

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:
There's a few instances here that stuck out to me:

The sentence in 'Early Life' about his middle name is awkward, is it a traditional middle name? Also 'had' is probably the wrong tense to use.

Some things are defined in the lead, but should be redefined the next time they are introduced in the body of the text (Seattle Mariners, in the text)

Arinzona Fall League (AFL) would add clarity.

'no win-loss record' sounds awkward, could be piped to 'no decisions'

Check comma usage carefully, in some cases they are used a bit heavily. LMK if you need more clarity on this one.

B. MoS compliance:
A few more issues here

The lead is overly long, and lots of the material in the lead is not in the text. I think the info about the drafts would be better served in the amateur section, and removed entirely from the lead.

Usage of #'s - generally write out in full, all digits under 10, as long as they aren't in dates or records.

terms that are WL'd in the lead, but not on their first usage in a later section.

'bases on balls allowed' - the whole term probably doesn't need to be WL'd, also a parenthetical reference (walks) would be helpful to readers

Links to Double A, etc, or at least a link to an explanation of baseball's minor league system.

I don't see this in any other baseball GA Articles, but is there a rationale for excluding stats tables? It leads to a lot of text references for stats which make it quite choppy. Obviously not an issue if this has been previously established.

ERA not defined anywhere.

Professional career - any thoughts to breaking it up with minor league sections, rather than having it all under 'Seattle Mariners'?

missing PERSONDATA

Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:
Looks good

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:
Very stats oriented in some seasons, any chance of adding a bit more material and a few less numbers?

B. Focused:
A little too focused, as mentioned above, but sticks to the topic @ hand.
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
ALT text could be added to these images.
Overall:
Pass or Fail:
I'll put this one on hold to let these issues be addressed.

Canada Hky (talk) 03:20, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Off the bat, thanks for all your help! I have addressed some of your concerns, however, there are some I have issues with.

If you could, please define the comma usage problem.

No problem, its really just comma usage where there is no need for a pause in the sentence, and it slows down the flow when you are reading. Just these few sentences as an example: "Fister grew up in Merced, California and, by his account, started playing baseball at the age of "six or seven."[2] He followed the Oakland Athletics, and the San Francisco Giants growing up.[3] His favorite player was Cal Ripken, Jr.[3] Fister played soccer, football, and basketball as a kid.[2] His father and grandfather share his middle name, Wildes, and Fister calls it "a family tradition."[2]"

I would re-write that passage as: "Fister grew up in Merced, California where he recalls starting to play baseball at the age of "six or seven".[2] He was a fan of the Oakland Athletics and San Francisco Giants as a child. Fister also played soccer, football and basketball when he was younger. His middle name (Wildes) is "a family tradition" which he shares with his father and grandfather."

Note there are some instances where you use serial commas and I do not - those aren't the issue as long as it is consistent throughout (and I believe you are) - its more the cases where they are inserted into sentences where they aren't really needed, or could be eliminated to give a smoother read.

Done --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 21:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am also not sure what material is in the lead and not in the "Seattle Mariners" section.

It was mostly the draft material that was not in the body, which you have remedied - the one issue here was that Seattle Mariners is (was?) not WL'd in that section at all.

Done --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 21:58, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On the issue of numbers, I was told in another GA process that the usage of digits was not written out if they were "comparable."

Comparable to what?

To be honest, I'm not sure. Killervogel5 (talk · contribs) conducted the review so he would be the person to ask. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 23:37, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stats tables have been rejected by WP:WPBB.

Sounds good, I don't understand it, but if that's the policy, OK. I checked the project page looking for a consensus on what should be on a player's page and couldn't find it, which is why I asked.

I don't really understand it either. I get the idea, I just think It's a bit odd. It has become a project quirk. Like NHL not having roster navboxes. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 23:32, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Breaking it up into sections saying "Minor leagues" and "Major leagues" is just a personal preference. To me, it creates unneeded difficulty because what if Fister is sent down? Having an organization name is just what I choose.

Good point, never thought of that.

I would disagree that personal data is missing. Though there is not a section entitled "Personal," personal information is still in the "Early life" section.

That was unclear on my part, I apologize. I meant like this: WP:PERSON.

Done --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 22:02, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 03:59, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I also don't see much opportunity for "material" being added. The stats are the backbone of baseball and players like Fister don't get much attention otherwise. If I come across something, I will add it. I just don't think I will anytime soon. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 04:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Understandable that stats are the backbone of baseball (which makes the policy to exclude stats tables from the article a little puzzling), but it hurts the readability of an article to just recite stats for several paragraphs (and its hard to compare from season to season when you have to look back to a different paragraph rather than up or down a few lines in a table). For my own reading, do you have a link to the discussion of this policy?

The idea is that per WP:NOTSTATS stat tables have no place in the articles and are better left for external sources like Baseball-Reference. Here's the discussion: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball/Archive 14#Stat Boxes. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 23:27, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, all good except the numbers. Still not sure what comparable means (my few GA's have always had <10 written out (usually requested because I forgot)), but they aren't consistent throughout this article either way, and we should at least be internally consistent. Its tough to follow a guideline when you don't understand it. Canada Hky (talk) 03:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done: Numbers are fixed. If we overlooked a policy, I can always rollback the edit. Just awaiting final inspection. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 04:58, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good, everything has been addressed. I'll pass this article. Sorry for the delay, I thought I would have wireless when I was travelling, but didn't. Canada Hky (talk) 16:38, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's cool. Thank you very much for the review! You were a ton of help. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 19:13, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]