Talk:Doom (1993 video game)/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Shooterwalker (talk · contribs) 23:42, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This is a hard one and historically important. You're doing good work. I'll try to get to it within the week. Shooterwalker (talk) 23:42, 2 July 2023 (UTC) Gameplay "early" is sort of ambiguous here without context. I'd drop it, or maybe integrate the last sentence in this paragraph somehow, where you clarify what makes its 3D graphics less mature than later technology. "a series of levels set in" -> this clutters the sentence, and you clarify next sentence anyway. strike it. "through the often labyrinthine area" -> "through labyrinthine areas" or "through maze-like areas" "a particularly difficult enemy" -> feels like we could be more specific here "presented from several preset viewing angles" -> "rendered at fixed angles" " while managing supplies of ammunition, health, and armor" -> this might be better at some other point in the section, just to keep the flow of talking about monsters and enemies. " attacking by throwing fireballs, biting, using magic abilities, or clawing" -> "attacking by biting, clawing, or using magic abilities such as fireballs." There is a good point for a paragraph break where you start to talk about weapons (which is maybe where you could put the part about managing health, ammo, and armor). "Cheat codes give the player instant super powers including invulnerability, all weapons, and walking through walls" -> "Cheat codes allow the player to unlock all weapons, walk through walls, or become invulnerable." Shooterwalker (talk) 02:25, 5 July 2023 (UTC) Plot Maybe this is outside the scope of this section, but maybe the reader would like to know the relationship between levels and episodes. (Perhaps in the previous section.) "with the minimal story instead given in the instruction manual and in short text segues between episodes." -> "with a minimal story presented mostly through the instruction manual and text descriptions between episodes." "waste processing facilities" -> "waste facilities" (dropping a word might improve the flow, without any loss in meaning) " Emerging from the teleporter, he is overwhelmed and comes to with only a pistol again. " -> "After the battle, the marine emerges from the teleporter on the brink of consciousness, awakening with only a pistol." "In "The Shores of Hell", he fights on through Deimos research facilities that are corrupted with satanic architecture and kills a gigantic cyberdemon. " -> " In "The Shores of Hell", the marine fights through corrupted research facilities on Deimos, culminating in the defeat of a gigantic cyberdemon." " marine takes on hell itself" -> "marine battles through hell itself," "A portal to Earth opens and he steps through, only to find that Earth has also been invaded." -> "When a portal to Earth opens, the marine steps through to discover that Earth has been invaded." "invasion force" -> "invaders" Let's pause there. You're off to a solid start and this will get to GA with a bit of work. Shooterwalker (talk) 02:45, 5 July 2023 (UTC) @Shooterwalker: Done all above, I think- thanks for reviewing! --PresN 14:45, 5 July 2023 (UTC) Thanks for your work. Let's keep going. Concept "specifically first-person shooters," -> maybe drop this for flow and readability. I think it works without this statement. But if you think it's important, the sentence is long and should be broken into two. " Immediately following its release, most of the id Software team began work on a new set of episodes, Spear of Destiny, while id co-founder and lead programmer John Carmack instead focused on technology research for the company's next game" -> "When most of the studio began work on additional episodes for Wolfenstein, id co-founder and lead programmer John Carmack instead began technical research on a new game." In the next sentence, say "Wolfenstein 3D: Spear of Destiny" instead of just Spear of Destiny. "but were largely tired of Wolfenstein." -> " and were largely tired of Wolfenstein." "They initially considered making another game in the Commander Keen series, as proposed by co-founder and lead designer Tom Hall, but decided" -> "Co-founder and lead designer proposed a new game in the Commander Keen series, but the team ultimately decided" "They moved offices to a dark office building, which they named "Suite 666", and drew inspiration from the noises coming from the dentist's office next door." -> "They moved operations to a dark office building, naming it "Suite 666" while drawing inspiration from the noises they heard from a neighboring dental practice." Design "At the end of November, Hall delivered a design document, which he named the Doom Bible, that described the plot, backstory, and design goals for the project." -> "In November, Hall delivered a design document that he called "the Doom bible", detailing the project's plot, backstory, and design goals." " scientists on the Moon open a portal from which aliens emerge" -> "scientists on the Moon open a portal to an alien invasion." "John Carmack not only disliked the idea" -> "John Carmack not only disliked the proposed story" Iconic, historic quote from Carmack. Thanks for doing your homework. "Hall was forced to rework it again in December, however, after the team decided that they were unable to create a single, seamless world with the hardware limitations of the time, which contradicted much of the document." -> "However, the team later realized that Carmack's vision for a seamless world would be impossible given the hardware limitations, and Hall was forced to rework the design document once again." "proclaimed the new game features that John Carmack had created" -> this is vague " includes" / " retain" -> "included" / "retained" (try not to mix tense) "Initial versions also retain "arcade" elements present in Wolfenstein 3D, like score points and score items, but those were removed early in development as they were not in keeping with the tone." -> "Initial versions also retained Wolfensteins arcade-style scoring, but this was quickly removed as it clashed with Dooms intended tone." "Other elements, such as a complex user interface, an inventory system, a secondary shield protection, and lives were modified and slowly removed over the course of development." -> "The studio also experimented with other game systems before removing them, such as lives, an inventory, a secondary shield, and a complex user interface." " levels were being created and a demo was produced. John Carmack and Romero, however, disliked Hall's military base-inspired level design." -> "levels were created that became part of an internal demo, with Carmack and Romero rejecting the military architecture of Hall's level design." "flat level designs were uninspiring, too similar to Wolfenstein, and did not show off the engine's capabilities. " -> "flat level designs failed to innovate on Wolfenstein, and failed to show off the engine's capabilities." "The team also added a third programmer," -> this feels like it breaks the flow or is out of the chronology. Is there a better place for it? Maybe shift it to the previous paragraph? Or just drop it as trivial and outside the narrative. "four-player multiplayer games matches," -> this feels like it could be said with two or three words Engine There's a lot of swapping of tenses here. I understand that the engine might still exist in the present, but it starts to distract from the reading. " Doom was programmed" -> coded? developed? too many programmings "The data used by the game engine, including level designs and graphics files, are stored in WAD files, short for "Where's All the Data?". " -> "The engine uses level and graphical data stored in WAD files, short for "Where's All the Data?"." "though two traversable areas cannot be on top of each other." -> "but does not allow areas to be stacked vertically." " such as strobe lights" -> add a comma " for the time" -> remove for flow " so a mixed media approach was taken" -> "Pull this into its own sentence, setting up the next two statements." Audio This is already good. See how far you can take it from here. We're making good progress. Shooterwalker (talk) 02:36, 6 July 2023 (UTC) @Shooterwalker: Done with the above, thanks again! --PresN 02:15, 8 July 2023 (UTC) Release " With plans to self-publish, the team had to set up the systems to sell Doom as it neared completion" -> "Initially, iD Software planned to self-publish the game, setting up operations to do so." " He believed that the mainstream press was uninterested, and" -> strike this and move it later, for flow. "Instead, he reached out directly to software retailers, offering them copies of the first Doom episode for free, allowing them to charge any price for it, in order to spur customer interest in buying the full game directly from id." -> "Believing that the mainstream press would be uninterested, he instead gave software retailers the option to sell copies of the first Doom episode at any price, in hopes of motivating customers to buy the full game directly from id." "Doom's original release date was the third quarter of 1993, which the team did not meet." -> "The team planned to release Doom in the third quarter of 1993, but ultimately needed more time." "building online" -> "building on the nascent internet". "anticaption" -> "anticipation" "So many users were connected to the first FTP server that they planned to upload the game to, at the University of Wisconsin–Madison, that even after the network administrator increased the number of connections, id was unable to connect, leaving the admin no choice but to kick all other users off to allow id to upload the game. " -> "id was unable to connect to the FTP server where they planned to upload the game, since there were so many users already connected in anticipation of the release, thus forcing the admin to kick them off to make room for the upload." "After being alerted by network administrators the morning after release that the deathmatch network connection setup was crippling some computer networks, John Carmack quickly released a patch to change it, though many administrators had to implement Doom-specific rules to keep their networks from crashing due to the overwhelming traffic." -> "The morning after release, John Carmack quickly released a patch in response to complaints of network congestion from administrators, who still needed to implement Doom-specific rules to keep their networks from crashing." "an expanded version of Doom developed" -> avoid passive voice. who developed it? Ports This is well-written. One softer suggestion is to put the open source GNU license remark in the middle of the paragraph. This would make things more chronological, and also break up the long list to make it more readable. (Assuming you can distinguish between ports that were enabled by the open source release.) Thanks again for your patience and good work. Shooterwalker (talk) 22:27, 13 July 2023 (UTC) @Shooterwalker: Done, with tweaks to some. I moved the GNU bit for flow, but it doesn't break up the list of ports, since unfortunately its release just led to all the million unofficial ports, not the listed official ones, which got access to the code direct from id. Thanks for the in-depth review! --PresN 21:14, 14 July 2023 (UTC) Reception "Upon its release" -> I know this is stated above, but it's good to reinforce the release date I wouldn't nitpick this, but was "overnight phenomenon" something multiple sources said, or only the one? That specific phrasing was just from the book cited, though other sources refer to it in similar terms, though it can be hard to disentangle it being an immediate financial success vs. having an immediate impact on the medium/industry. "profit by the day after release" -> "within a day after release". "a year and a half prior" -> you can cut this for readability " In combination with its sales, the shareware version was estimated in 2002 to have played by six million people" -> "In addition to sales, an estimated six million people played the shareware version by 2002" Consider a subheading for commercial vs critical reception "Electronic Entertainment called it ..." -> three reviews in one sentence is a lot to digest, let alone three quotes back to back. " Similar accolades" -> maybe be a bit more specific here " combined to create what Computer Gaming World termed" -> this reads a little funny, since you start out summarizing what three other reviewers said. It makes it sound like CGW summarized the other reviewers. Other versions "The Ultimate Doom received mixed reviews" -> try to incorporate a release date here too, just for timing and context. The opening sentence is already a mouthful, and might be better broken into two, or even three shorter sentences. The above section(s) are otherwise really well written. I might consider reducing the number of quotes so that they don't happen every single sentence. But that's only because that's the advice people have given me for FA. (Less important for GA.) I'm also not a fan of semi-colons, but I've learned not to press the issue. Just give it another read, asking yourself if it would be better to commit to a full stop, or a comma. We're getting there slowly but surely. We can wrap up a first pass after the next review, and then catch anything else afterwards. Shooterwalker (talk) 23:47, 14 July 2023 (UTC) @Shooterwalker: Now done! Yeah, if I go for FA the amount of semicolon and quotations will need to be considered, I'd also expect for reviewers to pick at them. --PresN 14:37, 17 July 2023 (UTC) Legacy The first paragraph is blurring the opinion of a few different authors, where individual attribution is more appropriate. If there's a term that multiple journalists have used ("popularized the first-person shooter") then use that, with a bundle of citations. If it's a unique observation, then it should be attributed to the individual citation. The best of all time lists are well written into a paragraph. Aren't there a few more? See List of video games considered the best. Are there other specialty lists that have singled the game out? For example, most horrific, most groundbreaking, or the like. Clones Just for chronology sake, maybe put Doom's success as the first part of the sentence. "The success of Doom led to..." " Other games were rumored to be built by reverse engineering the Doom engine or inspired by it, such as LucasArts's Star Wars: Dark Forces (1995) " -> "Other games were inspired by Doom, if not rumored to be built by reverse engineering the game's engine, including LucasArts's Star Wars: Dark Forces (1995)" That last sentence is another instance where you may need multiple examples in order to justify games, plural. "a 2.5D engine like Doom's" -> a 2.5D engine inspired by Doom" Sequel and Franchise "Like with Wolfenstein 3D, which was followed by a retail set of episodes titled The Nocturnal Missions using the same game engine, Doom II was a retail game using the Doom engine. " -> The meaning of the comparison here is unclear. "Id had been approached by GT Interactive prior to the release of Doom with plans to release a retail version of Doom and Doom II, and chose to create it as a set of episodes rather than a new game, allowing John Carmack and the other programmers to begin work on id's next game, Quake." -> this sentence is also unclear about who is doing what. It would probably be clearer in two shorter sentences, with a more active voice. I think the verb tense is a little muddled here. I understand the distinction between sequels that still currently exist in the present, but were developed in the past. But it starts to distract, and might benefit from an edit for consistency's sake. Controversies "which was only rescinded in 2011" -> "and this was only rescinded in 2011" Was the mass murder simulator comment after columbine, or before? The chronology does add context. "The swastika was removed in later versions; according to Romero, the change was done out of respect after id Software received a complaint from a military veteran" -> "The swastika was removed in later versions, out of respect for a military veteran's request, according to Romero." Community "led to a community" -> "attracted a community" "the popularity" -> "the game's popularity" "Because of its widespread distribution, Doom introduced multiplayer shooting battles to a large audience and was also the first game to use the term "deathmatch"." -> "Doom was the first game to coin the term "deathmatch", and introduced multiplayer shooting battles to a wide audience." "The ability for user-generated content to provide custom levels and other game modifications using WAD files became a popular aspect of Doom." -> "Another popular aspect of Doom was the versatility of its WAD files, enabling user-generated levels and other game modifications." "John Carmack and Romero were strong proponents during development of supporting mods" -> "Carmack and Romero had strongly advocated for mod support," * how it worked" -> how they worked" "before Doom was released, however, leaked alpha versions were modified by players, and within weeks of release programs were created to modify levels" -> "Still, players were able to modify leaked alpha versions of the game, allowing them to release level editors within weeks of the game's release." "Soon after, id CEO Wilbur posted legal terms to the company's website stating that mods were allowed with no fees to id and allowing mod authors to charge money, but absolving the company of any responsibility or support." -> "Soon after, id CEO Wilbur posted legal terms to the company's website, allowing mod authors to charge money without any fees to id, while also absolving the company of responsibility or support." The paragraph about level editors feels like it should fit in the middle of the preceding paragraph, just to maintain the chronology. "with some critics comparing them favorably to the official added levels in The Ultimate Doom" -> "earning favorable comparisons to the official level additions seen in The Ultimate Doom". "In 2018, for the 25th anniversary of Doom, Romero announced Sigil, an unofficial fifth episode containing nine levels, which was released on May 22, 2019 for €6.66 with a soundtrack by Buckethead, and then released again for free on May 31 with a soundtrack by James Paddock." -> this sentence is a little long, and should be simplified or split. " Although the concept of speedrunning a video game existed before Doom, its release coincided with a rise in interest in speedrunning due to the wider availability of the Internet around 1993 that gave the means for players to be able to share their speedruns with online communities." -> " Although the concept of speedrunning a video game existed before Doom, its release coincided with a wave of popularity for speedrunning, amplified by the online communities built on the nascent Internet." We made it. Our first pass. I think things are in good enough shape that we can wrap it up with one more pass, hopefully no more than two. You're doing great work here. Shooterwalker (talk) 23:34, 18 July 2023 (UTC) @Shooterwalker: Finally got all this, sorry for the delay! There are other "best of" list rankings (I added one I missed), but to avoid making it a slog I tried to restrict it to "top 10 or higher" and "from a video-game focused source" - a lot of the cites on List of video games considered the best are placements in the 20s and 30s, or are from general magazines/newspapers- interesting, but not indicative that people who know a lot about video games still consider it a great game. --PresN 17:04, 25 July 2023 (UTC) This is a long article so it may take more than one pass to finish. But let's try to go over the whole thing. Lead " The player assumes the role of a space marine, popularly known as the Doomguy, fighting his way through hordes of invading demons in military bases on the moons of Mars and in hell. The player traverses levels to find an exit to the next level or kill a final boss, while fighting demons and possessed undead humans." -> "The player assumes the role of a space marine, popularly known as the Doomguy, fighting through hordes of undead humans and invading demons. The game begins on the moons of Mars and finishes in hell, with the player traversing each level to find its exit or defeat its boss." " after Wolfenstein 3D (1992) and the Commander Keen series of episodes (1990–1991). " -> "after Commander Keen (1990-1991) and Wolfenstein 3D (1992)." (chronology) "In May 1992, id started developing the game as around the concept of using technology to fight demons, which would use the fast 3D game engine being developed by John Carmack and would have a darker style than Wolfenstein 3D or Commander Keen." -> "In May 1992, id started developing a game focused on fighting demons with technology, made using a new 3D game engine from developer John Carmac, with a darker style than their previous titles." "Initially intended to have a science fiction plot by designer Tom Hall, the final game, designed by John Romero and Sandy Petersen, is a fast-paced action game with a limited plot." -> "Designer Tom Hall initially wrote a science fiction plot, but he and his work were removed from the project, with the final game featuring an action-heavy design from John Romero and Sandy Petersen." "in which the first episode is released for free to drive interest in paying for the rest." -> "marketing the full game by releasing the first episode for free." "Doom was a critical and commercial success and is considered one of the greatest video games ever made and one of the most significant games in video game history." -> "Doom was a critical and commercial success upon release, earning a reputation as one of the best and most influential games of all time." " and in late 1995, it was estimated to be installed on more computers worldwide than Microsoft's then-new operating system, Windows 95. " -> this feels like trivia that is better left to the article body " most important in the genre" -> " most important games in the genre" "It led to a wide array of games using or attempting to copy the engine and a robust modding scene, and is considered to have originated the video game speedrunning community." -> "It led to an array of imitators and clones, as well as a robust modding scene, and the birth of speedrunning as a community." (also link video game clone) Body " The environment can include " -> "The player also encounters" (a lot of "include" repeated) " In May 1992, id Software released Wolfenstein 3D, later called the "grandfather of 3D shooters", because it established the fast-paced action and technical prowess commonly expected in the genre and greatly increased the genre's popularity." -> "id Software released Wolfenstein 3D in 1992. Later called the "grandfather of 3D shooters", the game established the genre's popularity, and its reputation for fast action and technological advancement." "The concept had a working title Green and Pissed, but Carmack soon renamed it Doom after a line in the 1986 film The Color of Money: "'What you got in there?' / 'In here? Doom.'"" -> "The project's working title was Green and Pissed, but Carmack renamed it Doom based on a line from the 1986 film The Color of Money: "'What you got in there?' / 'In here? Doom.'" Maybe consider moving the quote itself to the footnotes. " the player discovers that the aliens are demons while hell steadily infects the level design over the course of the game" -> " the player discovers that the aliens are demons while hell steadily infects the level design" " He was replaced in September, ten weeks before the game was released, by Sandy Petersen." -> " He was replaced by Sandy Peterson in September, ten weeks before the game was released." "Development was done on" -> "The developers used" " that with an easily swappable file structure along with releasing the map editor online" -> "that by releasing a map editor with an easily swappable file structure." There's some funny verb tense stuff happening in the "Engine" section. It's not strictly wrong, but maybe take one more look to see where it distracts from the overall flow of the development. the example of "idspispopd" doesn't mean much to readers without more context. You could drop it, or try to use a clearer example. Does the information about the character design belong in the engine section? Perhaps it belongs more with audio, in an "Art direction" section. "As id Software planned to self-publish the game, prior to release it set up operations to do so. " -> "id Software planned to self-publish the game, setting up a distribution system leading up to the release." "The team was unable to connect to the FTP server at the University of Wisconsin–Madison where they planned to upload the game, since there were so many users already connected in anticipation of the release, which forced the network administrator to kick them off to make room. " -> this is a mouthful and could be shortened or split into two. " university networks were banning" -> "university networks began banning" " though none were by id Software" -> "independent from id Software" " Some of these were bestsellers" -> " Some of these became bestsellers" "Although the company later estimated that only one percent of shareware downloaders bought the full game, it was receiving over US$100,000 in orders every day, as much as it had made per month during the initial launch of Wolfenstein 3D." -> "Although the company estimated that only one percent of shareware downloaders bought the full game, this was enough to generate daily revenue of US$100,000, selling in one day what Wolfenstein sold in one month." " this was typified by the review" -> I don't think you're wrong, but is this WP:SYNTH? I already mentioned that the reception is quote-heavy, and I basically agree with you that it can wait until FA. I actually feel more strongly about trying to round up most, if not all of the "greatest game" lists. Even on extended lists, it's important enough coverage to create an informative article with useful footnotes. Even one sentence would do it. "Doom has also been ranked among the best games of all time by X,[X], Y,[Y], Z[Z]..." "The Doom engine was licensed by id Software to several other companies, who released their own games using the technology that were similar to Doom as a result, including Heretic (1994), Hexen: Beyond Heretic (1995), and Strife: Quest for the Sigil (1996)." -> "id Software licensed the Doom engine to several other companies, which resulted in several games similar to Doom, including Heretic (1994), Hexen: Beyond Heretic (1995), and Strife: Quest for the Sigil (1996)." "On January 26, 1994, a month and a half after the release, the first full level editor, Doom Editor Utility, was created by a group led by university student Brendon Wyber. The program was capable of creating custom levels, and the first of these, "Origwad", was created in March 1994 by Jeff Bird." -> "On January 26, 1994, university student Brendon Wyber led a group to create the Doom Editor Utility, leading to the first custom level by Jeff Bird in March." " the development of the video game speedrunning community is considered to have originated with Doom" -> "Doom is credited with creating the video game speedrunning community." We are so close. Thanks again for your work. Shooterwalker (talk) 20:36, 28 July 2023 (UTC) @Shooterwalker: Done with these. --PresN 20:02, 30 July 2023 (UTC) This is excellent work, and probably within striking distance of a WP:FA. Congratulations on another WP:GA for an important and historic game. Shooterwalker (talk) 00:37, 31 July 2023 (UTC)