Talk:Don't Say You Love Me (M2M song)

Don't Say You Love Me (M2M song) is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on October 26, 2017.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 29, 2015	Good article nominee	Listed
October 15, 2015	Peer review	Reviewed
October 29, 2016	Featured article candidate	Promoted
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on October 8, 2015. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the word "kissing" was altered in the song "Don't Say You Love Me" as it was considered inappropriate for the Pokémon: The First Movie soundtrack?
Current status: Featured article

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Fair use rationale for Image:Pokémon The First Movie.jpg

Image:Pokémon The First Movie.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Don't Say You Love Me (M2M song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Magiciandude (talk · contribs) 03:38, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oh man, I remember this song and the movie when it came out! Anyways, I'll take on this review. Admittedly, I did do some contributions on this article, but only pertained to charts and that was a long time ago. Hopefully that doesn't constitute as being a significant contributor. Erick (talk) 03:38, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Haha yeah me too. I remember going to see the movie as a young teenager. I'm nearly 30 now and i'm not ashamed to admit I still enjoy listening to this song haha :). Freikorp (talk) 07:55, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

General

Numbers between zero and nine should spelled out per WP:ORDINAL.

If you're referring to wording such as "It reached number 2", please see MOS:HASH. I think the wording is acceptable in this circumstance. Freikorp (talk)

Huh interesting, I'm surprised I never saw that guideline before.

Ensure that all the date formats are consistent per MOS:DATEUNIFY

Sorry but I can't find where the date formatting is inconsistent, please point it out to me. Freikorp (talk)

""Don't Say You Love Me" appeared in the Felicity episode "The List", which aired in the US on October 3, 1999", "both the film and soundtrack were released in the US on November 10, 1999", " It was released in the UK on March 20". These example sentences use month-day format while the rest of the article use the day-month format.

Done. Freikorp (talk)

Only the release date should be listed on the infobox, not the country where it was first released.

Fixed. Thanks. Freikorp (talk)

Lead

"It was first released on the soundtrack to the film Pokémon: The First Movie in November 1999, also appearing in the film's closing credits." → "It was first released on the soundtrack to the film Pokémon: The First Movie in November 1999 and appears in the film's closing credits."

Done. Freikorp (talk)

"After being released as a single from the soundtrack it later appeared on M2M's debut album Shades of Purple" add "(2000)" after Shades of Purple as that is the year the album was released.

Done. Freikorp (talk)

Release and appearances

"That same month it was featured in the Beverly Hills, 90210 episode "Tainted Love"" → "In the same month, it was featured in the Beverly Hill..."

Done. Freikorp (talk)

Charts and certifications

Both certifications from the RIAA (before May 2013) and ARIA are based on units shipped for singles, not sold.

I've reworded the certification table to say "Shipments" instead of "Sales". Freikorp (talk)

I'm not sure the inclusion of the Latin pop and Tropical airplay charts are really warranted unless they released a Spanish version.

To be honest i'm confused about how it managed to chart here, but if it's OK with you i'd prefer to leave this in here until we get a third opinion. Freikorp (talk)

It's cool, I'm not forcing you to remove.

Per WP:USCHARTS, Hot Singles Sales chart cannot be included due to the Hot 100 being present.

Removed. Freikorp (talk)

The Swedish Singles chart should link to Sverigetopplistan.

Cheers for that! :) Freikorp (talk)

Track listing

All of the track listings for each single needs to be sourced.

Found all except one via Amazon.com. Amazon doesn't always back up the country of release, though I could cite the CD itself as a secondary reference for there; comprehensive information is found at Discogs (here's the one for the single I can't find on Amazon: [1]) I know you can't cite discogs, but I can cite the CD directly. Would that be required, and would citing the CD itself be good enough for the one I can't find on Amazon? I've looked at featured articles for songs and only about half the ones I looked at had references for track listing. Freikorp (talk)

Yes you may cite the CD single itself.

- Done. Freikorp

Critical reception

You should mention that Chuck Taylor was writing the review for Billboard so you could say: "Chuck Taylor of Billboard magazine was writing...

Done. Freikorp (talk)

Since the next sentence is a another review from Billboard, you can mention the editor is also writing for Billboard such as "Michael Paoletta also from Billboard" or something similar.

Done. Freikorp (talk)

Entertainment Weekly is a magazine and needs to be italicized per its article.

Done. Freikorp (talk)

Music video

"The video was directed by Nigel Dick and filmed from October 4 till October 6, 1999" how about "The video was directed by Nigel Dick and filmed from 4 October to 6 October 1999"

Done. Freikorp (talk)

References

Billboard magazines released before 2009 are published by Nielsen N.V..

Cheers :). Freikorp (talk)

Misc.

Any known live performances of the song such as at an award ceremony, festival, or a concert?

I didn't come across any mentions in the sources I found, though i'll have a more in depth look tomorrow. Freikorp (talk)

That's all I got for now. Just fix the above issues and it should be good to go. Erick (talk) 13:41, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Magiciandude. Addressed everything except the live performances post, which I will look at tomorrow. Freikorp (talk) 14:06, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sure thing, keep up the great work! Erick (talk) 14:08, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Magiciandude: I've added referenced information on 3 appearances i've found. While it's safe to assume they would have played their biggest hit at all of their concerts I could only find one reference specifically saying they did. While searching for this information I inadvertently found a whole heap of other information and added it the article; you may wish to review this before passing the nomination. Thanks. Freikorp (talk) 04:54, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Very nice find! The only changes I would make are:
- "Questioned about the lyric change in an interview, M2M replied" → "When questioned about the lyric change in an interview, M2M replied"
- You used the month-day format on the first sentence of the Live performances instead of the day-month format used everywhere else.
- Maybe it's because I don't speak Norwegian, but Ref #8 doesn't mention anything about them performing in Disney Epcot.

Once these issues are addressed, I will gladly pass this nomination. Erick (talk) 13:48, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Magiciandude: Done. Well spotted with ref 8; turns out I put a reference in the wrong place. Cheers :) Freikorp (talk) 14:15, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I now pass this article. Well done! Erick (talk) 14:59, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Music sample

@Freikorp:, I noticed that you included a music sample since the GA review and just had a PR and I wanted you to know that the music sample needs a critical commentary. Examples of a critical commentary for a music sample can be found on Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. Also the music sample exceeds the 10% maximum (24 seconds is for songs that are exactly 4 minutes, see WP:SAMPLE). So the sample should not be more than 22 seconds long. Hope that helps. Erick (talk) 16:06, 15 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Erick. Thanks for the information. I've added a reference regarding lyrical analysis in the chorus, do you think that is sufficient? To be honest I don't really want to bust out my music editing software to trim off a measly 2 seconds, especially since the 24 seconds allows for the entire chorus to be heard rather than be cut short, but I might get around to this before I nominate it for FAC. Freikorp (talk) 23:15, 15 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'd just also add something a reviewer said about the song itself. The picture of the music video might also need a critical commentary, but music video pictures are not my area of expertise (see example on Romance (Luis Miguel album) which I heavily contributed to). Otherwise, the article looks very well done. Erick (talk) 15:04, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Featured article?

Hi all! As this was featured article, so I just clicked to see it. One thing I noticed is there is somewhere a lot of reference repetition, each sentence is cited by a same ref. Can this repeat be removed, and instead of citing sentence-by-sentence with the same refs, cite a whole paragraph once in the end? Hope you undrstand my weak English, Thanks! M. Billoo 22:23, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Reference repetition" is sort of a sliding scale. As long as it's clear what source a sentence/chunk of information comes from, that is OK. A featured article can have an entire paragraph with a single reference at the very end, and that would suffice in many cases. I was one of the editors of this article when it went through the FAC process. I can't speak for the main editor, but one reason that many editors (including myself) favor citing every sentence is to avoid losing the reference at some later date. If sentences are rearranged by future editors, the source of information is more likely to remain clear. If an uncited sentence is moved into a new paragraph, it is more likely that the sentence will lose its corresponding references (or even get deleted) over the long run. Although there is a standard against citation overkill, that is more for situations where references are excessive (multiple citations to support a trivial point, like "the sky is blue^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]") or severely impact readability (if^[1] almost every^[2] word^[3]^[17] is^[5] cited^[21]). —BLZ · talk 22:41, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Soundtrack

Not entirely sure if this counts as a reliable source, but Amazon.co.jp does not list this song on the original soundtrack. Japanese Wikipedia also does not list this song as the film's ending song. The article should probably specify this. Would a better phrasing be the "international release?" Brutannica (talk) 01:23, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's not the original soundtrack, that's the original score. Accordingly, it doesn't include any songs that are on the soundtrack. Does the Japanese Wikipedia article say which songs appear at the film's ending? If I remember correctly, it's one of two of three songs that appear in the end credits of the English version. Maybe the Japanese article is just mentioning one of the other songs that appear in the end credits. Even if it did get left out of the Japanese film, I see no reason to specify that it was on all versions of the film except the Japanese one. Freikorp (talk) 02:33, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Orphaned references in Don't Say You Love Me (M2M song)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Don't Say You Love Me (M2M song)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ew":

From The Big Room: "The Big Room". Entertainment Weekly. 15 March 2002. Archived from the original on October 4, 2015. Retrieved 2 October 2015.
From M2M (band): "Shades of Purple". Entertainment Weekly. 10 March 2000. Archived from the original on 29 December 2016. Retrieved 26 September 2015.
From Shades of Purple: "Shades of Purple". Entertainment Weekly. 10 March 2000. Archived from the original on 29 December 2016. Retrieved 26 September 2015.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 19:14, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]