Talk:Dominicans Don't Play

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What is the wikipolicy concerning YouTube links?

[1] thanks 01:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

just dont mess with the Teck N9ne Gang from The Bronx DDP is weak against them

The following was removed from the article suppposedly because the sources didn't support the pazra ... the sources did support exactly what it said, some of the links may now be expired or require pay because they are archived:

18 year old beaten and stabbed by gangmembers

On February 20, 2007 an 18-year old man was beaten and stabbed 21 times in Boston's Back Bay MBTA station by a gang of teenagers suspected to be members of DDP. Police, using footage from security cameras have arrested and charged three males aged 17, 16 & 15 with assault with intent to murder, aggravated assault and battery with a dangerous weapon, assault and battery with a dangerous weapon (shod foot), and assault and battery. The victim is not believed to have gang affiliations, but is thought to have had a run in with someone in or affiliated to the gang. ^[1]^[2]^[3] (Hardnfast 01:53, 7 June 2007 (UTC))[reply]

References

^ Van Sack, Jessica (2007-02-20). "Teenager stabbed multiple times at Back Bay T station". Boston Herald. Retrieved 2007-02-28.
^ Szaniszlo, Marie (2007-02-28). "T cameras help in bust of Back Bay stab suspect". Boston Herald. Retrieved 2007-02-28.
^ Ellement, John (2007-02-28). "3 teens ordered held in T station stabbing". Boston Globe. Retrieved 2007-02-28.

Don't know if this true...

Don't really know but how the story goes, Trinitario was started in upstate jail; so in order keep the prison beef out of the street and the street beef out prison the Trinitarios also made DDP. I can't verified the source, but maybe someone can AvFnx 04:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

nope.. not true 64.131.205.111 04:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Even if it was true, you'd need a source to back it up. Tom US A 20:57, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dominicans Don't Play

I think that you should consider taking a look at sections before deleting so many. As well as take it to the talk section. Many people are putting a lot of work into it. I'm unsure the wikipedia policy on youtube links because there are featured articles with youtube links. [2] BoriquaStar 08:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are countless reasons why so much content shouldn't have been added to this article, and reasons were given why each time an edit was made. First of all, Wikipedia has rules about using Youtube as a reference, its not allowed because of copyright issues. If there was a website about DDP, and they had original footage that they owned the rights to, and that video clip was hosted on their site and not part of a site such as Youtube or Google videos, it can be used as a source. Furthermore, video clips such as "PATRIA KILLER PALOMO" showing Dominicans throwing up signs add absolutely nothing to the encyclopedic value of this wikipedia entry.

Much of the content recently added uses a source that isn't reputable, a Dominican blog which lists news briefs with absolutely no sources for them. Then there are sections which use references, but incorrectly. For example, the entire section "Another teen killed" is based on the assumption that DDP was involved. When you go through every single reference in that section, not a single one of them fully asserts that DDP was even involved, there is only a mention that investigators were trying to determine if they were. So if none of the references can demonstrate that they were actually involved, it can't be added to the article. By adding the same references to other facts involving the situation, it falsely gives the impression that DDP was involved. The Brawl in 42nd street is uncited, the Pelham Prep HS incident also involves possible DDP involvement, but the reference only states what the other one did (investigation into possible involvement), there's no indication DDP was actually involved in that crime. Monroe High School section, Potential for Expansion section, also zero references. For the DDP in Spain section, the first sentence mentions members of DDP being arrested in that country, while the article referenced does not mention that whatsoever. The rest of that section then becomes completely unecessary (references to how many Dominicans live in Spain). The section is concluded with a reference saying that DDP is in Spain, but from a blog with no sources (and the text is copied verbatim, which is a copyright violating issue). There are no references backing up the rivalries section.

I've proven that the new content is speculative, and that the references cited do not support them. I've shown that a few of the references are inappropriate, and that the Youtube videos can't be used because of Wikipedia's rules, plus they add absolutely no value whatsoever to the entry. DDP is an obscure gang, we have one or two users (possibly members of DDP) which continuet to make the gang appear more serious than they are by linking them to events that DDP has never officially been tied to. Any Wikipedia Administrator can take a minute to look at the references (and lack thereof) to confirm this. 74.230.193.91 14:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like the improper use of references was worse than before. I just removed one section about the colors which falsely uses a citation that has nothing to do with it. Removed possibly locations which are unsourced. A reference for "numerous violent" incidents only mentions one actual incident. No source is given for a fatal stabbing or their rivalries, the reference provided mentions an assault by a possible DDP member and that's it. Apparently the person who keeps adding information is reading these references and then completely fabricating information, all this info is being pulled out of thin air and cited with unrelated sources. 74.230.193.91 15:13, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to have some kind of personal vendetta against this group. This article and the violent acts commited by them are as needed as they are for Bloods or Crips. For things that may not be in your opinion be properly sourced place ^{[citation needed]} tags on the article. Do no delete almost 90% of the article. BoriquaStar 00:38, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am not going to place citation requests for information that is clearly not true. DDP is a relatively unknown gang, even among East Coast Latinos. They aren't as known as the Latin Kings, so there's no basis for you trying to compare them to known gangs such as Bloods and Crips. If there was some bit of information about them that seemed accurate, then it might warrant a citation requestion. But all content added to the article so far has been blantaly in bad faith. Someone is taking actual news pieces, and then using them as references when they do nothing to support the information added to this entry. Or, sources that aren't remotely reputable. When someone is doing that in bad faith, all other content added must be scrutinized for facts.

Let's look at the new references you just added today. You reference several articles which do mention a crime that Dominicans are suspected in Boston, but nowhere in the article does it mention DDP specifically. You add info about a teen stabbed in Chelsea, with one reference saying that he had to transfer schools because of DDP, and another reference saying he was stabbed, only no one from DDP was arrested for it. You might as well be using two references about a man who died last week, one saying that he complained about the food at McDonald's, then another reference saying the man was shot a week later although no one was arrested, and adding info saying that McDonald's shot him. You're using references incorrectly and you known it. Read the citation listed for the first sentence in the "DDP in Spain" section. Read the entire article and tell me how it supports the info added about DDP being arrested in Spain - you can't because its not in the article, you made that info up and then tried to fool people with a fake citation.

If you continue to add information that is not supported by the references added, or use blog and message board posts as references, I'm going to request a complete lock of this article so that it can't be edited by anyone after I revert it. I am not going to add citation requests when 90% of the information continually added to the entry is unsourced and in most cases, totally fabricated. Any wikipedia Admin can see that the sources are bad, and that your edits are in bad faith, I wouldn't be surprised if the article is completely deleted if you persist. 74.230.195.78 04:03, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sidenote, I left up the info you added on Myspace and Youtube, as well as the teen transferring schools, because you referenced them with reputable sources, and the sources completely back up what was added, that's all I asked in the first place. 74.230.195.78 04:07, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Take a good look at the sources. I added ton's of new sources for which you don't seem to want to place in. The Daily News and the New York Times are good sources. I'm not in the mood to be caught up in an edit war. Allow me to place in references. For things you question place in a fact tag or bring it directly to the talk page. BoriquaStar 04:37, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Boston Incident http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/bostonherald/access/1224507661.html?dids=1224507661:1224507661&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Feb+28%2C+2007&author=MARIE+SZANISZLO&pub=Boston+Herald&edition=&startpage=8&desc=T+cameras+help+in+bust+of+Back+Bay+stab+suspect "While the victim has no ties to a gang, the suspects are in a gang called Dominicans Don't Play, or DDP, and it's believed that the victim had an earlier problem with a person in the gang or affiliated with it," [Joe Pesaturo] said. After numerous interviews, and with the help of T cameras, transit police Lt. Mark Gillespie and Detectives Daniel O'Toole and Brian Harer determined the identities of the suspects, Pesaturo said. The T has installed hundreds of cameras in the past two years."
Union Square first incident http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=4834376 http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:yXslKP-RKdcJ:www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/478249p-402323c.html+dominicans+don%27t+play+gang&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=24&gl=us
Coney Island http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2006/06/15/2006-06-15_new_york_minute_van_kills_95yearold.html
Brawl at Times Square.. has fact tags.. feel free to remove.. Pelham Prep is a mirror of New York Post http://www.streetgangs.com/topics/2005/031105nybx.html
Monroe DDP has fact tags.. feel free to remove
Potential for expansion has fact tags. Feel free to remove.
Spain "Rooted in well-established gangs among Hispanic populations in North and Latin America, groups such as the Latin Kings, the Netas (the Newborns), the Forty Twos, the Chicagos or even the bizarrely named Dominicans Don't Play, have made swift inroads among the city's rocketing immigrant population" http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:lIXbUoegBpUJ:observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1922745,00.html+dominicans+don%27t+play+gang&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=16&gl=us
1,300 active members http://dr1.com/news/2007/dnews050407.shtml Rivalries.. there are some fact tags some are documented.

Here is what has been removed, and why. The reference after the statement about the states they expanded to and colors (nymag.com) makes no reference to expansion or colors at all. One references deals with the colors, but not of the beads, just they dress up in DR flag colors (I've reinserted that but reworded it to reflect the source). The reference to the Police site about their rivalry with the Trinitaries makes no mention of such information. The brawl in Union Square uses references which don't conclude that DDP was involved with the brawl, only suspicion, and that doesn't warrant inclusion. The Boston stabbing is also speculative, there may be involvement by DDP but that's not confirmed. Put simply, we can't list every instance in which a particular gang is "suspected" of something, particularly when there are never any arrests of those gang members related to the incident. You can't list the Chelsea stabbing the way you have it because you create an association between the gang and the stabbing when there isn't one. One reference says they made him transfer, another says he was stabbed, I already outlined why including the stabbing comment is highly misleading when no source indicates DDP did it. I'm reinserting the Madrid info because it at leasts no longer has the fake info about arrests, but removing the info about them being one of the more prominent gangs, the refrence used only states that DDP is in Spain, not prominent (that applies to all the gangs they mentioned). But what further indicates that they aren't prominent is that the Kings and Netas get mentioned at the end of the article in details, whereas DDP is only mentioned once in the entire piece, with no details on the gang. I'm reinserting the info on the Crips and Bloods, although the source (a high school student) doesn't seem reputable, but its on a valid news sites so its worth including. DR1 is a blog, it gathers articles or makes up articles but doesn't source them, which doesn't make it reputable. If you find something on DR1 that you think is useful, than do a Google search for a unique sentence used (or Google Dominican's Don't Play along with a keyword or city related to the article). If you can find an existing original source (a real newspaper online, etc), then you can use it. If the articles are real, DR1 found them somewhere, just find the real source. The youtube videos remain excluded for the copyright reasons mentioned in past discussion. 74.230.195.78 06:08, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do an RFC. With any crime organization. Many things are alleged. I'm writing and sourcing based off of strong sources. NY POST, WABC, NY TIMES, and Daily News. BoriquaStar 06:31, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's one thing to allege that the Mafia was involved with JFK's assassination, because its notable, and there's a wealth of information available on the subject. Its another thing to find only one reference on the entire web which suggests that a DDP member was investigated for a possible stabbing in Boston. ALKQN being arrested en masse at parades is notable. People suspect that Ricky Martin is gay, and a few tabloids have investigated the issue, but we don't post that to his wikipedia page. The allegations being posted aren't notable, the arrests (to some degree), are. Let's stick to what we can prove, because any time someone is shot in the inner city, every gang in that area automatically becomes suspect. 74.230.195.78 08:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sources after sources.. after sources

http://wcbstv.com/local/local_story_087153733.html http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu6phf3FG5kkBglRXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE3OHZmdjlsBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA2UEdnRpZANGODI0XzEzMgRsA1dTMQ--/SIG=141url0h2/EXP=1181929697/**http%3a//www.nypress.com/blogx/category_blogs.cfm%3fday=1%26startmonth=3%26startyear=2007%26category=1671087623 http://gridskipper.com/travel/gangs/modern-gangs-of-new-york-221988.php?mail2=true http://www.columbine-angels.com/Shootings-2005-2009.htm http://www.dominicantoday.com/app/article.aspx?id=15792 http://www.newsnet14.com/?p=4390 http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22dominicans+don%27t+play%22+arrest&fr=yfp-t-471&u=www.mts-consultants.com/schoolviolence_2005.pdf&w=%22dominicans+don%27t+play%22+arrest&d=QOlIf-rnOv-T&icp=1&.intl=us http://gothamist.com/2007/05/07/12yearold_bysta.php BoriquaStar 18:00, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Let's make a Wikipedia:Consensus BoriquaStar 22:50, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So now, after three admins disagreed with you on the administrator's board, after the admins refused to block me for 3RR because I was reverting your vandalism, and after you were unable to get the page protected, then you decide to actually start researching for real resources. Only we're back to square one again. The first source, WCBSTV, states that someone mistook someone for DDP, but that he wasn't, so it doesn't have anything to do with this article. The second source for NYpress has an identical article, that a kid was attacked because he was mistaken for DDP, only he wasn't, so it has nothing to do with this article. The Gridskipper reference isn't usable because it references answers.com for the content it posted about DDP, and answers.com uses Wikipedia for its info, and this wikipedia entry was filled with 90% false and improperly sourced info. So that's out. The Columbine Angels blog mentions a fight at Pelham High, and credits its source, but the story doesn't appear anywhere else on the web or on any New York newspaper's archives online. The Dominican Today sites mentions that DDP is in Madrid, but that's already in the entry, with a source. The newsnet14 site mentions that there are DDP members in Hazleton PA, but they had nothing to do with the article (fighting in a bar), the article just mentions all the gangs that are in that town. The final site listed alleges that DDP "might" have been involved with a crime, but its unknown and no DDP members were arrested or under investigation.

So we've got four references which mention "DDP" but don't implicate them in anything criminal, a reference which mirrors the old incorrect wikipedia page for DDP, a blog with an article that can't be verified anywhere on the web, and only one usable reference which mentions something that's already in the wikipedia entry (that DDP is in Madrid). There's absolutely nothing you can add to the article with any of these sources. Stop trying to reference articles in which DDP is suspected of something when they aren't arrested or its not a fact that they were involved. Stop using references which are not reputable. DDP is the least known Latino gang in the country, there's no point in trying to make them out to be a large organized gang like ALKQN, MS-13, or the Mexican Mafia if they aren't that big. Stick to real sources, news sites which say "DDP committed this crime", anything instead of the articles saying that they are "suspected" of bullying a student. 74.230.195.78 11:55, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This page really needs a cleanup.

Seriously, it's like somebody had a field day with this article. It REALLY needs a clean up as of 13 OCT 2009. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.180.210.5 (talk) 00:28, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The police seized "mad ammo," huh? Fanboy drafting should be eliminated. 173.77.65.217 (talk) 22:35, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done I actually took care of most of the page. I made it fit the typical style of a Wikipedia page, as well as got rid of "fanboy drafting". That's the kinds of stuff we can't have on a Wikipedia page. I'm glad someone noted this, and I took care of it. Please let me know if this page needs some help with fixing stuff up again, it doesn't seem like such an active page, however. Tom US A 20:59, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just a technicality, but...

It mentions Chelsea as an area where there is a significant concentration of Dominicans, when it is mostly White. Some high schools in Chelsea have DDP members, but they come from all over NYC, and most likely from areas like the West Bronx and Washington Heights.

Checkmatechamp137 (talk) 22:47, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] Van Sack, Jessica (2007-02-20). "Teenager stabbed multiple times at Back Bay T station". Boston Herald. Retrieved 2007-02-28.

[2] Szaniszlo, Marie (2007-02-28). "T cameras help in bust of Back Bay stab suspect". Boston Herald. Retrieved 2007-02-28.

[3] Ellement, John (2007-02-28). "3 teens ordered held in T station stabbing". Boston Globe. Retrieved 2007-02-28.

[1]

[2]

[3]