Talk:Dom Charles Norris

August 2018

Within the architectural and artistic community Dom Charles Norris is regarded as an important 20th century artist whose work is contained in many listed buildings. His work with Goalen is particularly significant. However, much of the detail of this biography has been deleted without a reason being given. Interest in him is rising, and he is set to become a historically very important UK artist. The 20th century society and Historic England both regard him as an influential and important artist already. 20th century society includes his work in tours. Historic England note it in listings. However, because he was under religious orders very little information is currently available about his life. This biography should work to remedy that problem. There is no list of his works extant, but although this list was put together for Wikipedia it was subsequently deleted by an editor (no reason given and another important research resource that has been lost). It is important that Wikipedia should reflect modern artists that are non-commercial as well as those whose works are likely to be less influential in the long-term but are famous/notorious in the short-term. Dom Charles Norris did not court publicity, which means his works speak for themselves, but since little was published about him during his lifetime it means citing sources is problematic. More research will be forthcoming in the future as his reputation is growing, but we need to have a biog in place now. He collaborated with both Goalen and Sykes so his biog is also important to round out the story of 20th century art and architecture as it links to their stories. He is representative of a religious practitioner within this movement in contrast to commercial practitioners such as Goalen and Sykes. Significance of a person's works are not established simply by how much publicity or popularity they have, but also by the merit of their work as established by experts.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Thurzajones (talk • contribs) 10:41, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~. Notability is established by providing citations to reliable sources; Historic England listings may be cited, as may works by "experts", so you need not be afraid on that front; indeed, "popularity" other than as demonstrated by reliable citations is a doubtful measure for Wikipedia also. You cannot however add material not supported by citations, however awkward that may be for a person in orders. It may be worth observing that sources do not have to be on the Internet: a manuscript in a library is sufficient as long as it is fully cited. Chiswick Chap (talk) 04:11, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Citing sources is important, but it's not necessary to provide a quotation from each source. This article contains too much non-free content and some or all of it should be removed. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 11:55, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

This article doesn't overquote from any single source. None of quotes are beyond fair-use criteria as a proportion of the source. If you compare eg steven sykes you will find that the first half of his bio is largely taken from one source - that has to be beyond fair use and yet no-one has deleted all of that. There are also lots of bios on here that do not cite sources and are allowed to remain. So I think you are inconsistently applying rules here.Thurzajones (talk) 11:47, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Dom Charles Norris

This artist is known universally as Dom Charles Norris but has been moved to Charles Norris (artist). I think that will cause confusion as you will not find a single reference to him as Charles Norris. Dom is a title that is always included with his name. I am going to revert to Dom Charles Norris but please give a good reason why you would change the page to a name he is not known by (which means no-one will search for it using that name).— Preceding unsigned comment added by Thurzajones (talk • contribs) 20:46, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

We do not usually use titles such as "dom" (an obscure title likely to be meaningless to many) in article titles. Dom Charles Norris redirects to here, so nobody will have any difficulty finding the article. DuncanHill (talk) 20:50, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

But how can we call him something that no-one else in the world calls him? It's a religious title like 'father' and part of his catholic identity. It doesn't matter if it's "meaningless to many", it is what everyone that knows him as a glass artist calls him. You can't just rename him. Lots of other religious people have their titles included in front of their names on Wikipedia. Thurzajones (talk) 21:07, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

We would not normally include a title like "father" either. As it is people are likely to assume that his first name is Dom. DuncanHill (talk) 21:08, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Then you need to change Dom Perignon because according to your rules he should be called Pierre Perignon Thurzajones (talk) 21:14, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

OSB

Are the letters placed after the name of members of the Order of St Benedict. In that article you will see it says: "Individuals whose communities are members of the order generally add the initials "OSB" after their names." Thurzajones (talk) 21:05, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Then you need to link them to the appropriate aerticle, as they are meaningless to most readers otherwise. DuncanHill (talk) 21:06, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm not a Wikipedia slave - I was just answering your question.Thurzajones (talk) 21:14, 25 August 2018 (UTC)