Talk:Dog fighting

The Colosseum had not been built by the time of emperor Claudius

It was only built several generations later by the emperor Vespasian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.69.108.168 (talk) 23:47, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

"Likewise, under Emperor Claudius's reign, as spectators cheered, 300 bears and 300 Libyan beasts were slain in the Colosseum.[8"

It was only built several generations later by the emperor Vespasian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.69.108.168 (talk) 23:48, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

I came here to say the same thing. It might be referenced to a book, but clearly either that book is wrong, or whoever placed that reference made an error. I have removed the sentence. —BillC ^talk 03:16, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

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Merge proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Per the instructions at WP:MERGECLOSE, I am closing this discussion as a clear consensus to merge. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:59, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

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Merge: List of dog fighting breeds into Dog fighting.

This proposal grows out of the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of dog fighting breeds (2nd nomination), which ended in "no consensus". Some editors felt that the information on the list page was encyclopedic, and should not simply be deleted. However, it is highly problematic to say that such-and-such a dog breed is a fighting dog breed, because the preponderance of sources tell us that it is very, very far from being so simple. The AfD close noted that a merge outcome would be acceptable per the AfD discussion. Therefore, I am proposing instead that we perform a merge, in which all of the links to breed/type pages will be retained, but instead of being in list form, they will be in paragraph text form here, accompanied by text that provides the needed context. The content from the list page would be used to expand the Dog fighting#Breed origins section. All sourced breeds and types from the list page would be added to the text, if not redundant with those already listed there, and would appear alongside the text that discusses the complexities of breed origins and the changes of dog types over time. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:43, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support – per Tryptofish. This is indeed a complex issue that requires explanation; the list is inadequate. Who/what we become is a direct result of environmental adaptations, learned behaviors, community, opportunity, individual likes and dislikes, etc., and the same applies to dogs. Science was lagging in its early interpretations of animal behavior, probably because there was no funding for such research. Dogs were used in experimental labs, like rats and monkeys, etc. Society and science has evolved since then, and now we have results from wider samplings and more in-depth research thanks to advancements in genetics & DNA studies. Veterinarians are far more advanced as a result, especially in the area of inheritable diseases and so forth. The foremost authorities on dog breeds (KC & AKC) have not only helped fund such research, they have provided some of the DNA results, data and documentation which verifies lineage/pedigrees of purebred dogs. As a result, there is strong scientific-based evidence that earlier studies/samples were lacking relative to actual breed identity, dog temperament and behavior, anecdotal accounts and faulty visual IDs vs science based results, all of which explains why some of those earlier studies need to be shelved. It is time for WP to update its articles with factual, science-based information. Atsme 💬 📧 18:42, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Support – per Tryptofish and Atsme. Dog fighting#Breed origins already covers most of the relevant information on so-called "dog fighting breeds". The second sentence of List of dog fighting breeds says, "Some were specifically developed for dog fighting, others were developed for other purposes", which means the list isn't even a list of breeds whose origins definitively trace back dog fighting; it's just a list of breeds that are commonly used. The article contains no other relevant information. Can easily be merged with Dog fighting#Breed origins. Askarion ✉ 12:11, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Support per my reasons in the AfD and Atsme above.

As an aside: should the participants of the AfD be notified of this discussion? It wasn't long ago. NeverRainsButPours (talk) 13:26, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

I notified WikiProject dogs, and there's a tag linking to this discussion on the list page as well as this page. I assume those AfD participants who are interested in the list page are watching it. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:42, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Will there be Coverage of Michael Vick and the Ongoing Nature of Dog-fighting?

I am just wondering—as a question to the active editors of this page—do you intend to mention more current or recent instances of dog fighting? Or do you intend to suppress discussion of that in the article, even if properly cited, etc. as per Wikipedia?

I noticed this comment below: “Nor am I interested in a Google Search that brings up anything that relates to the Michael Vick Dogfighting Case anywhere on the internet, including media and other websites.”

Or is the intention to present dog-fighting in the US as something that has died out entirely? I wish that were the case, but do not believe so, from knowing that bear-baiting occurred as recently as 2012 and dog-fighting continues, e.g.,

Dog Fighting is Thriving in U.S. - Hundreds of Pit Bulls Seized in 2021

I have no plans to use that or make the case, at this point, I just want to see what your plans are. I think recent and notable incidents should be included, but are you against this, for any reason? Veritas Aeterna (talk) 18:13, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Blood sports were declared illegal in the early to mid-19th Century, so there is not much factual/verifiable material available. Most of the information is based on anecdotal accounts. Individual incidents should not be included if the purpose is to drive fear based on unverifiable or anecdotal accounts. Single incidents rarely pass WP:10YT, and there simply is not enough material included in an offero=. Clandestine blood sports are illegal and that should be the extent of what needs to be said about dog fighting beyond its historical significance. People commit all kinds of crimes, including dog and cock fighting, bull fighting, and whatever other horrific live animal on animal "sport" is trending. On the other hand, if the person is notable enough to include their illegal dog fighting activity in their WP bio, then we include it. Dog fighting as an article should focus on historic events dating back to when it was an accepted blood sport ... but guess what? There is little to no documented information dating that far back, so what we are left with is anecdotal information and a lot of guess work. Be prepared to keep digging. The most trustworthy material comes from academia and historians. Atsme 💬 📧 20:42, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I overlooked Dog fighting in the United States, which has quite good coverage but may need updating. That article includes Michael Vick and others, along with coverage of bait animals, organized crime, and so on. No, the purpose is to understand what is really going on and how it affects public safety. I did not believe bear baiting could exist now--I thought surely it had died out some 500 years ago, but then I saw the video from South Carolina from 2012, and could not believe what I saw. Better to know the truth, that is what Wikipedia is all about. Veritas Aeterna (talk) 21:20, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

I looked at this page, and at the US page, with this in mind, and I think the way things are at this page works well. Vick is notable in part for the very fact of his prosecution for dog fighting, which received such intensive coverage that recentism isn't a problem in this case, so it's entirely appropriate for the US page. But I don't see focusing on single individuals for this page, just as a matter of WP:DUE weight. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:42, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Legality in Honduras

Near the beginning it says that it is still legal in Honduras, but later it says it isn’t. Can’t both be correct. 80.192.238.117 (talk) 18:14, 11 September 2023 (UTC)