Talk:Django Reinhardt/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Toulon?
Django spent a lot of time in Toulon when he was young and old. I'm surprised his bio on Wikipedia does not mention this lovely south of France town ... and I'm not saying that because it's my hometown :) 207.171.180.101 19:07, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Baptiste?
Baptiste was never part of his name, his legal name was "Jean Reinhardt" and his Gypsy/Romany name was "Django". Where does the "Baptiste" come in? I'm guessing that it's the name from his Baptism or Communion or Confimation or something.
I've removed the Baptiste. According to the "Notes" section of Michael Dregni's "Django. The Life and Music of a Gypsy Legend" : "Django's legal name was not "Jean-Baptiste" as often reported; his birth certificate, hospital records, and passport all list his name as "Jean."" 150.101.219.178 04:37, 19 December 2006 (UTC) 19 Dec 2006
What is this?
"He only played a few tunes at the end of the for some some reasons, Duke didn't write any special arramgments for him." Seems to need some work. Astrophil 22:27, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
"Basque gypsy encampments close to Paris"? Hmm the French Basques live in the southwest corner of the country, and that isn't anywhere close to Paris. Moreover i am ignorant of any special relationship between the Gypsies and the Basques.
Jerome Potts 04:58, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Banjo?
An anonymous editor added a brief addition that Django had played the banjo, so to verify that, I did an internet search to verify that. The information that I found I then added to the article. There was, however, lots of fragmentary and occasionally contradictory information about Django on the internet, so it is probably going to take finding a good book on him before this article can be inproved further. For example, some webpages said that he started on the violin, and others said that he started on the banjo, or banjo-guitar. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 23:58, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
-Django actually started on the violin at a very young age; many people tend to overlook this because Django is mainly known as a guitar player. It's quite common for gypsy boys to pick up the violin. The banjo (6 string banjo guitar) came later around the ages of 9-11. -D 28 Feb 2005
- Actually, he started playing on a banjo guitar, which has the body of a banjo, but the 6 strings and the tuning of a guitar. If you look at the photographs of him, you can easily see the difference. Apparently he switched to a standard guitar around the time he was going professional. - --Christian Plattner 12:04, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
-in response to mr plattner: django's "professional" career began very early (early teens). Switching to the guitar had very little to do with his career; it was simply a normal thing to do as the instrument was gaining popularity and therefore replacing the banjo guitar. Django's first instrument, nonetheless, was still the violin. -28 July 2005
Don't forget the legend about how he lost it. He left it in the back of a taxi the night his fingers were burned.
Gypsies also play the banjo too.
- He never played the "banjo-guitar", he played the same banjo (Which he and other people referred to as "jambon" because it looked like a ham :P) his mother gave him from the time he was a child, through the times that he played in the mussete professionally as a teenager, until he finally lost it in the back of a taxi the night his fingers were burned, like someone said earlier.
Pronunciation?
-the correct pronunciation (the way he and his family would've pronounced it) is dj (as in jack) an (as in UNcle) go (can't find an english equivalent but the o should be fairly short and light). In english we say dj (as in jack) an (as in ANgus) go, which is accepted as well. -D November 30, 2005
- Shouldn't Django be pronounced with a hard J (as in the english Jim) rather than a soft french J which is what the phonetic transcription in this article suggests. A D before J in French usually indicates a hard J.
- I put that there and I got it from http://wwuh.org/program/music/jazz/nejrc/pron.htm Rogerd 13:54, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
- Erm, I don't think you can trust that. I'm not sure the guy has an ear for French (although his jazz is no doubt impeccable). He gives Montreux for example as moan-trooh, whereas it should be a short O at the beginning (ending nasally) and that wonderful french extended schwa at the end, the kind that's best accompanied with a shrug. Mon-trer would be closed in Anglo-American terms. As the French routinely put a D in front of J to make a hard J (as in French imperial Djibouti) I reckon it's hard. Also the A wouldn't be long by French standards, but it will be closer to ah. —preceding unsigned comment by 86.137.92.3 (talk • contribs) 13:53, October 26, 2005
Pronounciation of Django's name: his surname is the real issue. I speak and read French (and English and Dutch)and I would like to make the following point regarding the pronounciation of Django Reinhardt. 'Django' as in 'Jim' sounds pretty close to me. The important thing is 'Reinhardt'; it is not 'Rhine-Heart'! It should be said in French: 'ray-nar', with the 'nar' pronounced as in'car'! He was a French speaking gypsy, not an American. Marcel van Ommen
Django: guitar god?
-This may seem like an odd comment, but reading this article, I fear that a reader unfamiliar with Django would not realize how mind-warpingly insanely skilled the guy was, and how deeply he is revered by uber-serious guitar players. I chuckle to think that I am effectively arguing for a *less* neutral tone in this article ;) Dxco 00:48, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
- Good point DXCO, someone should mention the numerous international festivals dedicated to the man , and the number of documentaries that exist (one of the recent ones titled "Djangomania" explores the fanaticism of django fans around the world). You can get more info about django festivals here www.djangology.net
- This is a very good point. Couldn't some simple metrics about speed and technique be included to give the reader a hint? I was listening to some Django today andwas struck by how could (with only two fingers, after all) play scales at metal-shredder speed.
I wish there was some soundclip we could embed into the article.
Discography
regarding the discography, i think all the entries should be removed in favor of the two choices as recommended by the django documentation center (http://djangomontreal.com/integ/Integrale.htm): for the die-hard fans: the Django complete set (Integrale) from Fremeaux & Associes and for the non-obsessive: "Rétrospective Django Reinhardt" 18 Nov 2005—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.131.96.102 talk • contribs .
I sincerely admit that I don't know very much about Django Reinhardt and, therefore, I am posting here for another reason than the one above. I found the discography written in reverse order (from the latest to the earliest), so I decided to rearrange it by chronological criterion. Impy4ever 12:05, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
I personally think it is a little "silly" to list album releases that were releases after Djangos death. I would vote to remove the section altogether since the information is superfluous. -Jon
not needed
(Acker Bilk was another musician whose dexterity seemed unimpaired by finger-damage as was Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath and Jerry Garcia of The Grateful Dead)
- this seems like a rather silly 'factoid' that is totally out of place. Why do we need to name 3 non related artists that have had finger damage? 12.20.127.229 21:55, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
- I agree. It's gone. --rogerd 00:15, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Maccaferri guitar
The article makes no mention of the Mario Maccaferri guitars that seemed to be a trademark of Django's playing and can be seen in a lot of his pictures (distinctive D-hole and cutaway body). Does anyone know the history of his use of these instruments? Also, I thought that the Maccaferris were designed to have an internal resonator, but weren't always manufactured with one. Did Django go for this feature or not? Bluewave 10:57, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
See http://www.lutherie.net/bckgrnd.html for this.
- Apologies if I get this wikipedia thing wrong, first time I've used it. I believe that Django almost exclusively used the petit bouche (small soundhole, longer scale, 14 frets to body) version that was actually manufactured by Selmer after their association with Mario Maccaferri had ended. The grand bouche (large 'D' shaped soundhole, 12 frets to the body and a shorter scale) was the model with the 'resonator', which many owners removed. Perhaps a reference with a link to the article(s) that already exist? Iain.
In the biography I read, it said he used a Selmer Maccaferri guitar, not a Mario Maccaferri.
Before you start to guess about the type of guitar used by Django I strongly recommend you to have a look at the information provided by todays luthiers. E.g. I got my "petite bouche" guitar (same model as Django's Selmer #503) build by dutch a luthier and he claims that the "grande bouche" guitars made by the Selmer factory are referred to as Maccaferris even though Mario Maccaferri as a classical guitarist by trade really only invented a nylon-string model. He had already left the Selmer factory by the time they started to make the "petite bouche" guitar with the longer scale. This information is consistent with the data in Francois Charle's book "The Story Of Selmer Maccaferri Guitars". So as a conlcusion I'd say that Django played a Macceferri guitar until the "petite bouche" known as Selmer-guitar was released. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.154.201.162 (talk) 08:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Django Reinhardt Video
Mind Blowing
- http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2649271?refsite=70638&ns=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.245.163.1 (talk) 02:16, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Manouche Festival http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8159317858443006210&q=manouche
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1754035475089548560&q=django
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&n=2&videoid=614502165&&Mytoken=C1CF76D7-D257-F95B-3A8815703AFAD75942467840 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.245.163.1 (talk) 23:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Why is "tributes" section removed?
Recently the anonymous user at 206.82.16.35 removed the entire "tributes" section without providing any reason or justifications. Anyone else think it should be restored? -- Planders 21:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Musicians influenced by Django
Trey Anastasio
- http://www.tuneresource.com/html/django_reinhardt.html
- http://www.jambands.com/apr01/features/django.html
- http://www.hightimes.com/ht/entertainment/content.php?=212&aid=3
Jeff Beck http://www.jambands.com/apr01/features/django.html http://www.guitarrepairsuk.com/Django.htm
David Crosby named his son Django http://www.dabelly.com/features/feature138.htm
Les Paul http://www.cmt.com/artists/az/paul_les/bio.jhtml
BB King http://www.pbs.org/wnet/aaworld/reference/articles/bb_king.html
Jerry Garcia http://www.jerryjazzmusician.com/linernotes/dregni-text.html
Black Sabbath
- http://www.rocksite.info/r-black-sabbath.htm
- http://www.carluvers.com/cars/Black_Sabbath
- http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=33165
- http://www.fast-cash.fact-about.be/Live_Aid/Black_Sabbath
Miles Davis song named "Django" http://www.vervemusicgroup.com/product.aspx?ob=disc&src=art&pid=10491
Django Reinhardt (Sinti) influenced Western Swing music(Bob Wills) etc. which in turn influence the country music of today. http://www.americanamusicplace.com/album_details.asp?inventoryID=905&cart=true http://www.mp3.com/django-reinhardt/artists/6280/summary.html&q=django+reinhardt
Willie Nelson, among others, http://conservatory.umkc.edu/thomasdana2/Django%20Reinhardt/django%20discography.htm
Here is a interview of Willie Nelson where he cites Django Reinhardt as a influence on country music and himself http://www.neonbridge.com/Articles/2000-2002/Willie%20Nelson.htm
Wes Montgomery http://www.gould68.freeserve.co.uk/wesbio.html
George Benson http://www.cosmopolis.ch/english/cosmo7/benson.htm
Jimi Hendrix among others http://fgmrecords.com/gypsy%20jazz/gypsy_jazz.html
Mark Knopler among others http://www.thebestofwebsite.com/Bands/Categories/Guitar.htm
Peter Frampton http://tbaldwin.home.mindspring.com/frampton/hof.html
- This ridiculously long list shows why, IMHO (you'll see that I made this point last year, lower down in this page), we should can the whole subject. Just write that he has been cited as a major influence in interviews by a large number of guitarists in jazz, rock, country and other fields. The list in the article is silly as it is; if we add all these references, it will be as readable as a phone book, but far less useful. - DavidWBrooks 20:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Why was "Compositions" section removed?
On Febuary 10th of 2006 someone removed the "Compositions" section from this Django profile. I spent a lot of time on that , why would someone remove it for no apparent reason? - Jon
I dont know who removed it, sorry about that - Unknown
I think the Compositions section is a critical part of Django Reinhardt, as a musician. The music he wrote is the most important thing about him, besides his magical ability to improvise. Just because the list has 70 songs on it doesn't mean it should have been removed. Can someone concur with me so that I can re-add the section? - Jon
I am now convinced that WikiPedia people are crazy. At 4:46pm, 18 August 2006 Mofus added a "Greatest Hits" section. I don't see why my section of "Compositions", songs authored by Django himself, was removed and replaced with a list of his "Greatest Hits"??? Are you guys all crazy? -Jon
- (FYI: Equating "disagree with me" and "crazy" is bad practice.) I didn't do the edit, but a list of 70 songs is stupid for an encyclopedia article. We are not an exhaustive database; they litter the Web already. There is supposed to be editing involved here - that is, choosing important facts so that readers, including newcomers, don't have to wade through pages of data. Imagine if we listed every composition on the Beatles page or Cole Porter page or, ye gods, Mozart's page! Less is sometimes more, and this is a good example of it. - DavidWBrooks 22:25, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Mr. Brooks, by your argument, in its current form, the Discography section should be removed as well. Imagine listing ALL of the post-artist Beatles, Bee-Gees, or Count Basie album compilations. Those too would fill pages and so why is that allowed here? Yours is simply an argument that should not be used because the result would be endless removals of information from every page on WikiPedia! What I was trying to say is that even though my list of Compositions is 70 items long (it actually could be condensed vertically to save space), it is the single most important thing that you could know about Django. His list of songs he authored is the mark of his legacy and was something I researched with difficulty. In any case I would love someone to re-add it, otherwise I will need to do it myself. You should set aside your so called "rules" on how WikiPedia should work and save them for some other context. -Jon
- The whole point of wikipedia is that people decided how it should be rather than experts telling us how it should be - and that decision comes as a result of disagreement; so this polite argument is a good thing.
- You're right: wikipedia shouldn't have a list of every Count Basie album; that's a waste, and a disservice to readers. Leave it to some fanboy site or to a CD site. We're not a grab-bag of facts, we're an encyclopedia, which means that the information we present should have some inherent value, rather than being as much as we could dredge up. A list of 70 songs tells people nothing about this brilliant man which can't be better conveyed within the article. What if he'd written 170 songs? 270? Should we list them all? Ugh.
- Bludgeoning people with volumes of information is not what an encyclopedia does; leave that to the rest of the Web. You obviously have great knowledge of Reinhardt's work; use it to improve what already exists here, rather than adding a page-long list that nobody will read. - DavidWBrooks 00:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
- What about creating another page for all his compositions with a link to this page, that way people could see his short compilation discography, or, if they wished to see more information, click on the "complete list of works by Djando Reinhardt" and see all his compositions, albums created before he died and albums created post-death.
Artists influenced by
I removed the list of artists influenced by Reinhardt, but it has been returned by an anon IP (with a long history of edits, not a fly-by-nighter), so perhaps it's worth a discussion.
I removed the list because it appeared to serve no purpose - an artist of Reinhardt's importance has influenced a huge number of string players; this list could be 100 names long - and more important, has no backup. There's nothing in most of these people's articles (I checked a half-dozen) even mentioning Reinhardt. So a reader has no idea why Chet Atkins is on the list but Doc Watson isn't, to choose an example at semi-random. The section adds no content, it's just name-dropping based on nothing visible.
I would like to remove the section; anybody who thinks an artist really needs to be in this article because Reinhardt's influence was so vital to him/her should have to provide some evidence for it - a quote or something with reference - before returning a name. Any thoughts? - DavidWBrooks 15:48, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- I think it is important to let people know that even "modern" rockers, etc, are influenced by not just AC/DC, Metallica, Van Halen, but other musicians. Most people think that most musicians are only interested in top 40 or narrowly classified music, I like displaying the fact that Django has a wide influence among musicians. Django is musicians music,
- I agree, but then why not write a few paragraphs explaining it, giving references. A list of names, as we have now, is unconvincing: for example, why is Tom Morello on the list? - DavidWBrooks 21:30, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Modern guitar players are almost ALL influenced by Django and so the list will always be hideously incomplete. Creating a list such as this also doesn't say anything about Django himself. -Jon
Leave it alone.Its fine, just a little trivial knowledge
- I've removed it again, since it keeps getting longer but no more relevant, to see if the reactions differ now that it's part of wikiproject-guitars. - DavidWBrooks 20:35, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Why do you want to mess with something when it is not broken? There are references etc, I dont see why you think who he inspired is irrelevant.It is relevant
- But there aren't references (or weren't) - that's the point. It was an empty list of guitarists, most of which didn't even mention Reinhardt in their own articles! Why were they listed and not other guitarists? Who knows - we certainly didn't tell. If there's going to be such a section, it needs real content, then it will be a valuable addition. - DavidWBrooks 02:14, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Every single guitarist on the list had a reference I found them cached (highlighted) in internet searches but they references are there up it the "Musicians influenced by Django" sections above.
- Good point - those that did have a reference were already in the article, so the list was superfluous! Yet another reason to kill it. - DavidWBrooks 10:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Compilations
I'm not sure that the list of compilations should have been removed. Having a list of 8 or 10 compilations doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. I know when I'm looking into a new artist, I look for decent compilations a lot of times before diving into purchasing a bunch of random albums. Does anyone else have any thoughts on it? Suppafly 13:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Illiterate or not?
It seems a little silly that, only a few paragraphs after speculating that Django may have been illiterate, the article quotes from letters that he wrote. Can someone reconcile this contradiction or, alternatively, remove the apparently incorrect speculation that he was illiterate? (I'm super happy that so many people love Django, too, though!) Michaeltmccorkle 20:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Django was illiterate, he could only sign his name, he remembered the shapes of the letters, not how to read them.Django is the King!
Superfluous?
"...(though it should be noted that this is not an unusual amount of time for a guitar to be tuned, especially before the invention of modern electronic tuners)"
If it's not an unusual amount of time, then why is it worth mentioning? Apart from that, i think it is unusual for an expirienced and talented guitarist to need 5 minutes to tune a guitar by ear. i can do it in less than 5 minutes, and I'm certainly not expirienced or very talented. A trained acoustic guitar player would usualy need less than a minute, some enthusiasts even less than 30 seconds (I know a few). Also: a lot of (usualy older) guitarists never use electronic tuners cuz they're quicker without them.
To the point: I am willing to delete this in my opinion misleading remark, but i'd rather have what I just wrote confirmed before doing so. Moismyname 20:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Unsourced References?
Let me get this straight, You probably wouldn't take the time to look up the references yourself,therfore you want people to tell you that the sources ARE IN THE TALK PAGE!!!! I have not added many of these, —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Robbyfoxxxx (talk • contribs) 15:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC).
No rhythm section?
From the article:
- The Quintet of the Hot Club of France was one of the few well-known jazz bands to have no drums or rhythm section
Is that right? The Quintet was 3 guitars, a violin and a double bass. Surely the double bass counts as rhythm? It certainly sounds that way to me.--80.193.22.182 12:44, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
The rhythm section was the rhythm guitars, this is the birth of the rhythm guitar.
Jacotte Perrier
Hi. I'm looking for information about a French jazz vocalist named Jacotte Perrier, who appears on this Reinhardt recording on two tracks, "Ric et Pussy" and "Salades de l'Oncle François". I'm not finding much by Googling; does anybody know of a source for more information about this person? -GTBacchus(talk) 04:39, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for Image:Django&Grappelli.jpg
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Dietrich Schultz-Kohn
How did a guy with the name "Kohn" which is very obviously Jewish get into the Luftwaffe? Is this a mistake in the article or was he actually rescued by a Jewish member of the Luftwaffe?
- I did a web search and found out that the correct spelling of his name is "Schulz-Köhn" (also sometimes written "Schulz-Koehn" in English). I corrected it in the article. Schulz-Köhn seems like a fascinating charcter... Worthy of his own Wikipedia article, if someone wants to write one. He was indeed a high-ranking officer, but also a Jazz promoter who was instrumental in keeping the jazz scene going and protecting musicians. He helped write an underground jazz fanzine that featured him in full uniform on the cover.
- The names "Schulz" and "Köhn" are pretty common in Germany, and not necessarily Jewish (in fact, I'm sure there are more non-Jewish Schulz's and Köhn's than otherwise).
- I agree; it would be interesting to have an article here on Shultz-Köln. If someone can translate German, the German Wikipedia has an article at w:de:Dietrich Schulz-Köhn. --A. B. (talk • contribs) 11:48, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Music influence (Biréli Lagrène)
Shouldn't Biréli be added to this list as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bireli_lagrene web page mentions a strong influence ? Thanks to you all.
68.11.159.141 (talk) 21:05, 30 August 2010 (UTC)Also, the band name "the lost fingers" is an homage to mr. reinhardt. I believe there is a separate Wikipedia article for that band68.11.159.141 (talk) 21:05, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Django biography...
I found an excellent biography of Django in a remainder pile in Ottawa Ontario recently. It is authoured by Michael Dregni and published by Oxford University Press 2004...and it is excellent and should be referenced in the main article. ISBN 0-19-516752-X —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.101.156.108 (talk) 00:54, August 27, 2007 (UTC)
- How wonderful. Have at it. Read the bio, help rewrite the article and list it as a source. Thanks Buster 21:20, 3 October 2007 (UTC)two
- There are only two full biographies of DR, the Delauney and the Dregni. Both are already used in this article but the Delauney much more so, so more Dregnis refs would be welcome. 1Z (talk) 18:49, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Fingers
The article claims he injured his third and fourth fingers, but the photo indicates fourth and fifth. Barduri 2011-01-20
- Fingers are counted separately from the thumbs in English, so this is correct. 1Z (talk) 18:49, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Who's the lead singer in...?
There's no mentioning of the lead singer in Django's "Giorgia on my mind", also participating in other songs. Who is he, and why isn't he mentioned in the article? Thanks. Gil_mo 22:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- You could go research that and add it to the article, cite a source and help out. Buster 21:18, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I think its Freddy Taylor
Django Symphony
Around 14 of September 2007 the Kristiansand Symphony Orchestra paid tribute to Django Reinhardt, "who during his lifetime dream was to play his music with a symphony orchestra." So they say. I think this should be looked up, cited or at least mentioned.
Translated web site:
Not Translated:
http://www.norvege.no/culture/music/Django.htm
English version:
http://vogna.net/vogna/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=54 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Morahman7vn (talk • contribs) 07:31, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Dingo?
I noticed that an edit was made earlier today replacing many of the incidences of "Django" with "Dingo". I fixed one instance in the introduction, before noticing all of the instances of his name in the discography read "Dingo" as well. Was this supposed to happen, or is this vandalism? (The most recent version with all the "Django"s was edited on the 7th of October.) Aristotle28 (talk) 23:52, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Birthdate
I've seen a roughly equal number of sources stating Reinhardt's birthdate as either January 23 or January 24. The article presently states January 23. As the citation footnote does not seem to be pinned _directly_ to the date, and as I do not have access to the book cited in that footnote, can anyone verify that the January 23 date is indeed what the book says? Or does the footnote refer to other aspects of the the lede paragraph and not necessarily the date? If not, then what is the source for one date being correct and the other not? Monkeyzpop (talk) 08:28, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Archiving
Does anyone object to me setting up automatic archiving for this page using MiszaBot? Unless otherwise agreed, I would set it to archive threads that have been inactive for 30 days and keep at least ten threads.--Oneiros (talk) 01:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Done--Oneiros (talk) 21:53, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
