Talk:Divine Comedy/Archives/2011

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The fifth gospel

I seem to remember while reading the introduction to my translation of the Comedy that it is sometimes referred to as "the fifth gospel". Unfortunately I can't find the exact sentence so until now all I have are these website1 and website2 - Please comment on whether this is a relevant fact for the article :) Mottenen (talk) 15:15, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I did not know this definition of the Comedy. Intrigued, I googled for the phrase "fifth gospel" in Italian ("quinto vangelo") in connection with Dante, and I found several references to Benedict XV. He is supposed to have given this definition, but I cannot find where. Somebody refers to his encyclical In praeclara summorum (see the text in Italian or in English) but I cannot find the phrase. Any ideas? Goochelaar (talk) 16:44, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I'll just add that the phrase is fairly common in Italian, including before Benedict XV (here of a truth to be found in Dante), and with plenty of other referents. Bossuet called The Imitation of Christ this. Curiously this, but nothing about Dante, is mentioned in Italian Wikipedia here. If we find what lies behind the uncited or untraceable references to Benedict XV, I doubt it will live up to the description "proclaimed." Wareh (talk) 18:57, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

So what you are saying is that this phrase is not uniquely linked to the Comedy because it is used commonly in Italia for great masterpieces (with biblical purposes)? If that's so then I don't see any reason to pursue this subject further Mottenen (talk) 16:28, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes. I'd still say that if anyone finds a more precise account of what Benedict XV actually said or did connected to the phrase, they should bring it up here. It seems that in his more measured and official words he did not say it, so the Italian sources that say he "proclaimed" the Commedia to be a fifth Gospel are very likely overblown. Wareh (talk) 18:05, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Subject closed then. Thanks for clearance Mottenen (talk) 22:17, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

I've found another reference which mentions the Benedict XV "fifth gospel" comment with a possible source: Fulgens Radiatur in Patrick Cummins, Dante Theologian, New York: Herder Book Co., 1948, p. 6. Paul August ☎ 19:35, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

But that seems to be an encyclical of Pius XII with no reference to Dante.[4] The quote you link seems parallel, though it is not identical, to a passage from In praeclara summorum: "Indeed, his Commedia, which deservedly earned the title of Divina, while it uses various symbolic images and records the lives of mortals on earth, has for its true aim the glorification of the justice and providence of God who rules the world through time and all eternity and punishes and rewards the actions of individuals and human society. It is thus that, according to the Divine Revelation, in this poem shines out the majesty of God One and Three." I have not tried to trace its true source, which might be a next step, though even what this citation-challenged author says is no reason to hope the same text contains the "fifth Gospel" quote (since "Benedict XV, who dared to call..." is just a received tag for him). Wareh (talk) 02:09, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Ibn Arabi and Dante

I remember that René Guenon has opposed to the idea that Dante is somehow influenced (not even encountered) by Ibn Arabi. He was saying that the writings of Arabi didn't have the chance to spread even a smell to Dante's era. Okcash (talk) 17:34, 1 February 2011 (UTC)