Talk:Dissociative amnesia

August 2006

03:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)03:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)~~I believe its real however limited in its scope. Sort of like how the ripple effect disperses. I have had some profoud experiences where this description makes sense in the way which I can Identify. I would like to explore this more. whereas Not only have I been through what I once could only describe to myself as the threshold of a nervous breakdown ( in that I felt as though i could not absorb anymore input as in addition to process something out in some circumstances which was more profound at a point, peaked then gradually subsided. Greatly requiring proactive involvement like an athlete to overcome) associated with profound cas\tastrophical circumstances. I also observed this with many addicts and alcoholics and other traumaus as being something that I could observe but not b\put my finger on. This description very w/ emphasis makes some sense. I truly believe ther is something substai\]antial here and would like to come back to it.

psychological vs physical cause

the article reads that it is caused by psychological effects, but the examples of movies in which this occurs given in the article are about cases of physiological amnesia. one or the other should be changed· Lygophile has spoken 23:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

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Case studies

I've moved the following section to the talk page for now at least - I don't see much merit in including case studies as they are single-incidents, making it difficult to draw any conclusions without being a synthesis. They've got a 'gee-whiz' factor, but nothing else, and I don't believe they're appropriate for the page as is. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to make 'em. WLU (talk) 17:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

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Case studies

• Patient J.G.- A 43-year-old woman was accused of defrauding Medicare by charging unsterilized materials as sterilized. When she realized that she may face lengthy time in prison, she lost all memories related to her past including her identity, important events, and technological developments during her life. She excelled in learning new words and had normal brain MRI and cognitive functions, only showing abnormal test results on the mental status exam. Upon investigating, they found that her psychogenic amnesia was triggered by the threat of confinement. She was terrified of being confined because her mother had locked her up in a closet as punishment during her childhood.
• Patient G.E. - A 20-year-old college student developed profound retrograde amnesia after sustaining a mild head trauma in a car accident. She was able to perform daily functions but was unable to recognize anyone other than her parents and grandmother with whom she was very close to. Neurological evaluations and computed tomography scans were normal while semantic knowledge such as identifying famous individuals were poor. There was no evidence of willful deception after performing several tests for malingering. After carefully reviewing her history, normal neurological examination and brain imaging, and pattern of cognitive test results as well as MMPI-2 profile and her demeanor during testing, she was diagnosed with psychogenic amnesia.
• Patient B.C. - A 34-year-old woman with 8 years of formal education sustained a mild head injury in the left fronto-parietal region after a car accident. She woke up after being unconscious for 15 minutes, but she seemed confused and was unable to move her limbs and showed signs of global amnesia. She could not remember her personal information as well as those of her family. In addition to losing her personal identity, she lost her ability to read or write as well. Neuroradiological exams were negative for focal or diffuse brain damage. She had no history of psychiatric illnesses or depressions in her past. No emotionally stressful event existed in her life right before the accident. Within 6 months, she had recovered her motor abilities but continued to have retrograde amnesia. Further testing revealed that she had severe impairment in short- and long-term memory both verbally and visually. Her emotional state was very flat and had very low affective participation in her state.
• 22-Year-Old Woman - An unmarried 22-year-old woman was admitted into the psychiatric unit for her selective retrograde amnesia after being kidnapped and being violated by a masked robber. She had lost her identity and continued to see hallucinatory vision of the parking lot in which she was kidnapped. She could not remember her university life period but was able to recall events from childhood up to her high school years. Electroencephalography (EEG) showed no signs of head trauma or epileptic discharge. Her brain MRI was normal.
• 33-Year-Old Woman = A 33-year-old woman came to the hospital after attempting to commit suicide by overdosing on hypnotic drugs. She had apparently had financial and possibly legal troubles before this incident. When she woke up in the hospital, she had lost her long-term memory and her identity. Brain CT, MRI, and physical exam results were normal; the only abnormality was the disturbances in her memory. This problem with long-term memory continued even after she had recovered some of her autobiographical information and famous events and facts. She was soon diagnosed with psychogenic amnesia after meeting the DSM-IV criteria.
• David Fitzpatrick – David Fitzpatrick, a 25-year-old British man, suffered Dissociative Amnesia on 4 December 2005 which wiped his entire memory clean, leaving him with no identity. The television documentary Extraordinary People: The Man with No Past followed Fitzpatrick as he tried to recover the life he had before, and discovered he had a dark past – heavy drinking, unemployment, sponging off family and friends, and failed relationships (one of which resulted in the birth of a daughter, now aged six years) – as well as a unique opportunity to start all over again.
• The documentary Unknown White Male (2005) deals with subject Doug Bruce's Dissociative Amnesia; retrograde amnesia was ruled out as doctors were unable to find any physical basis for the amnesia.
• Joe Bieger – On 5 October 2006 Joe Bieger wandered the streets of Dallas, Texas, for 25 days.
• Jeff Ingram – Jeff Ingram, a 40-year-old Olympia, Washington resident suffered a Dissociative Amnesia on 6 September 2006. He somehow made his way to Denver, Colorado, and wandered the streets before 'waking up' and asking doctors and police there for help in learning his own identity.
• Kevin Mura found out who he was after searching the internet for missing persons.

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References

References

I removed the following two references from the page - the first just seems like some guy's opinion (though referenced) and wasn't attached to any text. The second is a book, and also not attached to any section. If someone can replace the second as an in-line citation, that'd be great. I'd rather the first didn't go back at all, unless it justifies an unreferenced section and a pubmed article can't be found. WLU (talk) 18:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

• The Spectrum of Dissociative Disorders: An Overview of Diagnosis and Treatment by Joan A. Turkus, M.D.
• Whitfield M.D., Charles L., Memory and Abuse - Remembering and Healing the Effects of Trauma, Deerfield Beach, FL: Health Communications, Inc, ISBN 1-55874-320-0

WP:EL

Per our external links guidelines, I removed the following link, [1], it's a terrible choice for an EL, but a good source for the page itself. WLU (talk) 17:30, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

some contentious statements

Some of this contains statements about abuse which propound theories of recovered memory syndrome, which is not accepted by some/most experts. Merkinsmum 22:18, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The theories that recovered memory exists have been backed by verifiable data. Most experts accept this data. See http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Taubman_Center/Recovmem/archive.html

for data on RM. Dataman5 (talk) 03:01, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the OP, this article is biased and does not once address the substantial scepticism around the disorder. There is an equally strong body of data casting doubt on the claims made by this article; 'most experts' do not accept the theories of repressed memory even when they do accept the data held to support it. The article is presenting the phenomena as far more concrete and sure than academic/research consensus can back up - I call NPOV.

http://server03.cpa-apc.org:8080/Publications/Archives/CJP/2005/november/cjp-nov-05-mcnally-IR-nov.pdf 81.101.251.160 (talk) 14:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

That's kind of an awesome link. Consider integrating it into the page as a source. Unfortunately, if editors are exclusively adding reliable sources that only portray one side of the debate, it may be NPOV but we can not delete RSes because we don't like them. The appropriate action is to add the other opinion and strive for due weight to reflect the current consensus. If the sources are not reliable, then they can be removed. WLU (talk) 15:36, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Bad sentence!

The following sentence I strongly object to (and have commented out):

The study strongly suggested that "independent corroboration of recovered memories of abuse is often present" and that the recovery of the abuse memories generally is not associated with psychotherapy.

As I stated in my edit summary and my invisible comments, recovered memory is NOT the same thing as psychogenic amnesia - one is a diagnosed condition with extensive pubmed articles, discussion in very reliable source, a ICD number, section in the DSM and extensive medical research. Recovered memory is a suspect condition that is more political than medical, extremely suspect, and not comparable. If Chu discusses exclusively recovered memory, I don't think it's a good choice for the page.

I also dislike the statement about corroboration of recovered memories (which suggests there is reason to doubt) and the link with psychotherapy (psychogenic amnesia is treated with psychotherapy to retrieve and integrate memory; repressed and recovered memories are thought to be induced by suggestive, suspect and leading techniques used inappropriately by therapists). Psychogenic amnesia and repressed memory have different wikipedia pages, and I dislike the line between them being blurred. WLU (talk) 00:50, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

WLU states: “RECOVERED MEMORY IS NOT THE SAME THING AS PSYCHOGENIC AMNESIA - ONE IS A MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS, THE OTHER IS A SUSPECT POSITION OF A POLITICAL GROUP WHICH IS NOT CORROBORATED BY SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.” Actually, recovered memory has been verified as existing in many studies. And it has been verified by objective data. Here’s a good place to start for data on RM : http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Taubman_Center/Recovmem/archive.html

Recovered memory and amnesia are connected phenomena. The fact is, the line is “blurred” between the two terms by the research. Wikipedia should reflect the research.

Chu considers his study to be researching amnesia. He is comparing recovered memory and amnesia as connected phenomena when he states "amnesia for abuse memories" and "memory recovery." In the article, Chu states : "Participants who reported a period of complete amnesia for episodes of childhood abuse were asked about the role of suggestion in memory recovery" and "Many of the participants who had complete amnesia had made attempts to corroborate their recovered memories. Nearly all participants who reported physical and sexual abuse and who attempted corroboration were able to find some kind of verification."

I have also reverted a phrase recently added with no source. I have restored a sentence connected to the Albach study, which does discuss amnesia. The Albach study does discuss a treatment related issue. It talks about psychotherapy and the connection, or lack thereof, to recovered memory. Dataman5 (talk) 02:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

From the recovered memory page... "Repressed memory syndrome, the clinical term used to describe repressed memories, is often compared to psychogenic amnesia, and some sources compare the two as equivalent." Ignoring this, when this statement has sources is kind of like an ostrich with its head in the sand. Because you don't believe it to be true, doesn't mean that its simply NPOV to have it included. Rather, NPOV on wikipedia states that one should show *both* sides of the argument, not delete the ones you simply don't like.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 02:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

EL added

I have added an EL on Dissociation and Trauma Archives, full text searchable articles and case studies published in the 1800s and early 1900s. ResearchEditor (talk) 19:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Untrue Sentance

I'm just a kid who is doing a health project, but on the LSD page it says "There is also some indication that LSD may trigger a dissociative fugue state in individuals who are taking certain classes of antidepressants such as lithium salts and tricyclics."

Then on the Fugue State page it says that "Unlike retrograde amnesia, Dissociative Amnesia is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance."

Now, that seems just a little bit wrong.

If I totally messed up the format, I'm sorry. Just wanted to let you people know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.161.91.108 (talk) 23:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Link between PTSD and Psychogenic Amnesia?

I thought it might be worth thinking about... because child abuse, the case of the man who was abused in Japan with freeze drying experiments, etc point to this.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 02:05, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Name change

As stated in DSM-IV and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_disorder, Psychogenic amnesia is the former name for this syndrome, could someone please change this article's title to reflect this? Thanks Valethar (talk) 14:05, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Edit:Change it to Dissociative Amnesia, that is, as it is the current accepted name. Valethar (talk) 14:07, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Definition of pschogenic amnesia

I have made a large overhaul edit on the text introduction defining psychogenic amnesia, much has been edited out such as the term 'functional amnesia' stated as meaning the same as psychogenic amnesia (They are defined differently in the literature). I have edited out a few specific examples such as those 'found by Kopelman' that most cases of situation-specific psychogenic amnesia result from homocide..etc, one citation of such an example is not ample evidence that this is true. I have added in more definitions about fugue states, about the types of memory thought to be affected by psychogenic amnesia, and a little about its history in the literature. Most importantly I have added in information relating to the controversy surrounding the aetiology of psychogenic amnesia, it is a well hung-on-to notion in the literature but there is very little straightforward evidence of its true aetiology, especially since much of the 'evidence' are clinical anecdotes. It is important to present a critical view of the literature which I believe I have improved on in this entry, as it was previosuly defined as an open and shut case. Johunter (talk) 11.56, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Memory paragraphs

I have removed the text which cited 'there are three types of memory; sensory, short-term, and long-term' as this is incorrect- there are more types of memory; for example working memory and procedural memory.

I have removed the text on the Peripheral Nervous system (PNS), as this is largely irrelevant to psychogenic amnesia.

Overall, information on psychogenic amnesia will be expanded so that text contained in this article is relevant, as there is an entire wikipedia page on memory which will hold the specifics about such things as the PNS, instead of it being included here. Johunter (talk)) 9.31, 09 June 2012 (UTC)

Another memory paragraph was removed; one that was referring to emotional memory. It says that 'emotional memory can be suppressed in non-mentally ill individuals in two stages' (Their reference= Depue BE, Curran T, Banich MT (2007). "Prefrontal regions orchestrate suppression of emotional memories via a two-phase process". Science 317 (5835): 215–9).First of all, the term non-mentally ill individuals is just bizzare, something like 'healthy' would be suffice. Secondly not only does the citation not make sense, it is irrelevant and unfounded. The article they cite (Depue et al.) uses a think/no think paradigm in which case not thinking about something is not the same as suppressing it (see Garry, M. & Loftus, E. F. (2004)I am freud's brain (Reserach Review), Skeptical Inquirer).

The paragrpah on traumatic memory has also been removed, as almost all sentences in the paragraph are unreferenced and seem more like opions; for example the sentence 'the younger the subject and the longer the trauma is, the greater the chance of significant amnesia' is not even referenced, and this is a big claim. There is no validation for such a claim. Also the sentence 'Not being able to integrate traumatic memories seems to be the main element which leads to PTSD' is not only irrelevant, it is also not referenced and is equallly a large unvalidated claim about the causation of PTSD (see McNally, R. J. (2003). Progress and controversy in the study of posttraumatic stress disorder. Annual Review of Psychology, 54, pg. 229). Information on the mechanisms of memory and on PTSD can be found on their own pages, this artcile should be kept relevant to its topic of psychogenic amnesia. Johunter (talk) 10.01, 09 June 2012 (UTC)

Comparison with Organic Amnesia

This paragraph has been reworked and rephrased with more information added about how psychogenic amnesia is supposed to differ from organic amnesia, and also irrelevant information has been edited out. Although the main difference is supposed to be that psychogenic amnesia is of psychological rather than physical cause, there are other examples in the literature that distinuigh between them, and these are cited. It is mentioned that the differences remain controversial as, for example, psychological causes are often hard to find. Johunter (talk) 13.24, 09 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.59.250.111 (talk)

Prevalence

Information on the prevalence has been removed because it is unfounded and the examples given are not likely to be indicative of true prevalence rates. For example, one sentence read 'psychogenic amnesia was most strongly associated with severe and/or repeated traumas, and with traumas during childhood' but repeated traumas do not necessarily lead to more memory impairment than single traumas, nor does childhood trauma lead to memory impairment more than trauma during adulthood (see Williams, L. M. (1994). Recall of childhood trauma: A prospective study of women's memories of child sexual abuse. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 62, 6, 1167-1176).

Also, the Williams (1994) study (reference above)was cited that a prevalence rate of 38% of women in her study displayed psychogenic amnesia. This is misuse of the study; the results have been misinterpreted and cited as evidence for something that they are not (see Loftus, E. F., Garry, M. & Feldman, J. (1994). Forgetting sexual trauma: What does it mean when 38% forget? Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 62, 6, 1177-1181).

Due to controversy in the literature, true prevalence rates are hard to find, as most 'evidence' of psychogenic amnesia are retrospective case studies which cannot be corroborated (For example <ref name= "Sargant"/>. Therefore any talk of prevalence rates will be estimates so would be misleading to present as facts on this page.

Johunter (talk)15.28, 09 June 2012 (UTC)

Real Life Examples

The two 'real life' examples were removed; one was not referenced at all and the other was not corroborated, as is not much of the retrospective case studies in the literature which are cited as examples of psychogenic amnesia. The literature is heavily peppered with anecdotal case stories; anyone interested in reading some will easily be able to do so. The term 'real life examples' is misleading due to the controversial nature of psychogenic amnesia as a memory disorder; real life examples imply they are examples of true cases of psychogenic amnesia, which without proper corroboration they cannot be considered so. Johunter (talk) 15.39, 09 June 2012 (UTC)

Popular Culture

The term 'fictional' was added to avoid any mistakes of assuming these plots are evidence based. The Pliny the Elder reference was removed because it was a quote that somebody had said; therefore is not evidence that psychogenic amnesia has been recognised since the first century. The Jason Bourne example was also removed since he originally suffers severe head trauma in the story, so being it's a physical cause does not count as a fictional example of psychogenic amnesia. Johunter (talk) 16.15, 09 June 2012 (UTC)

Risk Factors

Risk factors have been removed; much was just repitition of what has been reworked into the introductory and 'about psychogenic amnesia' section such as that most case studies of those said to have psychogenic amnesia were exposed to trauma such as child sexual abuse or a war. Sentences within the paragraph were also quite contentious, such as 'patients exposed to physically or emotionally traumatic events are at a higher risk for developing psychogenic amnesia because they seem to have damaged the neurons in the brain'. This is quite odd, since neuronal damage would qualify the amnesia as organic and not psychogenic, and surley this is not meant to apply to every single person who has undergone emotional or physical trauma; such a sweeping statement is incredibly controversial. Also a sentence which begun with 'the study strongly suggests...' was removed because no study was previously mentioned. Johunter (talk) 16.49, 09 June 2012 (UTC)

Treatment

The treatment paragrpah has been edited and also merged with elements of the paragraph on theoretical explanations of psychogenic amnesia. The previous paragraph needed improvement as there were sentences such as 'with the help of psychotherapy and learning their autobiographies from family members, most patients recover their memories completley' that weren't even referenced and therefore were unubstantiated. Johunter (talk) 11.51, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Imaging and Brain Regions

I have edited the paragraph on imgaing and brain regions, and merged some previously cited information. It seems the case that since aetiology of psychogenic amnesia is vague, imaging such as EEG of brain regions involved in psychogenic amnesia are also vague. Johunter (talk) 12.50, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Review of current page

This page is now a well-balanced, thorough source of information on what is currently known about psychogenic amnesia, its classification, and importantly what has not yet been established, i.e. undetected underlying neurologial causes.

Suggestions: The popular culture section could be expanded by stressing that despite scientific disagreement about whether psychogenic amnesia is actually real, like repression it continues to endure in lay assumptions about memory and this shows up in art, literature, etc.

General: The article needs to be copyedited for a few typos (i.e. memory "decifits") and grammar issues. Lots of technical terms are clearly defined at first use but some are not (i.e. semantic/procedural memory), consider defining these for clarity. For ease of reading, consider breaking up large sections into smaller paragraphs.

Lead: this is a clear outline of what psychogenic amnesia is; consider making sure that every general point in the article is foreshadowed in teh lead (i.e. section about popular culture is not). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emountier (talk • contribs) 02:49, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Separation of Dissociative Amnesia from Psychological Amnesia - Admin needed for re-categorization of this topic

Could an admin keep this page as psychological amnesia, and make a new blank for dissociative amnesia since the two disorders are wholly different both psychologically, neurologically different and one is innate while the other is environmentally caused, and the DSM-5 only attends to dissociative amnesia. Thank you in advance. Z (talk) 19:08, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello Admin, thank you again in advance again, but the articles are backward. Could you make the new page the one for Dissociative amnesia and the current one stay as Psychogenic amnesia. I can provide feedback on why if needed.Z (talk) 23:38, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Psychogenic or dissociative?

it the article it is stated that "Dissociative amnesia was formally known as psychogenic amnesia", if it is no longer reffered to as psychogenic amnesia, atleast in a clinical setting, then shouldn't the article be updated to reffer to the correct term?

I dont want to make any changes just in case im incorrect though. ¿V0id? {have a great day!} (talk) 15:55, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program course assignment

This article is the subject of an educational assignment at Victoria University of Wellington supported by WikiProject Psychology and the Wikipedia Ambassador Program during the 2012 Q1 term. Further details are available on the course page.

The above message was substituted from {{WAP assignment}} by PrimeBOT (talk) on 16:02, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

there should be more info on the lack of evidence for this

The Return of the Repressed: The Persistent and Problematic Claims of Long-Forgotten Trauma - PMC (nih.gov)

this page explains how repressed memory and dissociative amnesia are the same thing, and how previous cases that have been diagnosed have failed to rule out other possible causes like head trauma. Dissociative amnesia goes against what we know about memory and how trauma affects it. Futhermore, it enables healthcare practitioners to try and recover lost memories in patients minds. Memory is extremely malleable and prone to being wrong. Einthevoid (talk) 01:12, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Service: [2] --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:07, 3 August 2023 (UTC)