Talk:Diple/Archive 1

Archive 1

Flute or reed?

"Bagpipes also exist which use diple as their chanter." Are these the only 'pipes with chanters that 'chant' from the flow of air against an edge rather than the usual enclosed reeds? Myrtone (the strict Australian wikipedian)(talk)

I don't think this article was translated properly. From these videos I don't think the diple is a flute, but instead a reed instrument. Can this be checked? Badagnani (talk) 04:38, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Give me a few days to double-check terminology, but I've owned several Balkan double-tube fipple-flutes that I believe were categorised as diple. MatthewVanitas (talk) 21:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, of course it's widespread all over the world for cultures to refer to reed instruments as "flutes," either properly or mistakenly. Badagnani (talk) 01:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Right, but I'm getting museum pics labeled "dvojnice" that are clearly fipple, and I've owned stuff labeled "dvoyanka" that was also fipple. Also seeing the term "diple" on non-Wiki-based lists of examples of fipple flutes. Also seeing pics of non-bagpipe "diples" that are clearly reed-pipes. These terms are mainly variants on the word "two", so its possible that the term just means "double-woodwind" and applies to both reed and fipple variants. MatthewVanitas (talk) 02:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Traditional woodwind musical instrument in Serbian music (Music of Serbia)

The first source not mention Diple as traditional musical instrument in Serbian music because if this information exist you would quote this information and you don't doing this. From the source(All bagpipe diple have a double chanter with two separate single reeds. In Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Dalmatia they differ among themselves, page 51-53, https://books.google.com.bz/books?id=7i44AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false), Serbia is not mentioned here. Second source (Serbian internet portal) speaks about private person with origin from Croatia who plays diple in Serbia and it is not RS. The same instrument is played by Croats in Germany, Austria, etc and it is not traditional musical instrument of music of Germany or music of Austria. Third source (Serbian internet portal) talks about an exhibition of different instruments in some Serbian museum, it is not RS. Everything is nicely explained and you can’t vandalize article. Therefore, you cannot replace RS with secondary informations and informations which do not prove stated claim. Mikola22 (talk) 15:27, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Nope, that is not the case. 1) Review by ethnomusicologists clearly states that diple is a folk instrument which is, beside others, used in Serb communities. Did you skip that part? His album is titled "Serbian wooden instruments" and it includes diple, which is confirmed by an expert. 2) Vreme article is about a museum exhibit on instruments which are traditionally used by Serbs - diple included. 3) Narodni muzički instrumenti is saying the same thing.

I take your point that it's not as usually used in all parts of Serbia, as it is in Republika Srpska, Montenegro, Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina etc. but you should understand that the instrument became part of the tradition a few centuries ago with Serb people from Bosnia and Montenegro moving to Serbia. Macura is not "a private person" but a well known performer, and he is a Serb from Croatia (or, in some circles, he may be another Vlach weirdo who was converted by SOC plotters, etc.). Another thing, labeling portal/magazine by the country of origin is really problematic, as you must know. cheers, Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 16:14, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

• 1. First source ie RS does not mention Diple as traditional musical instrument in Serbian music that is, she(author) does not mention Serbia at all in the Diple chapter. The proof is the source RS itself.
• 2 Second source (Serbian internet portal) is review for audio cassette of Darko Macura player of Dipli born in Croatia where he learned to play Diple. From this internet article: "U poslednjih 15 godina Darko Macura se potpuno posvetio usavršavanju svog umeća na više raznih tipova narodnih instrumenata (žir, šupeljka, kaval, cevara, frula, okarina, rog, dvojnice, šurle, diple, gajde, diaulos, sopila, tambura, gusle)", "In the last 15 years, Darko Macura has completely dedicated himself to perfecting his skills on several different types of folk instruments (žir, šupeljka, kaval, cevara, flute, ocarina, horn, dvojnice, šurle, diple, bagpipes, diaulos, sopila, tambura, gusle)." If this man plays all these instruments it does not mean that they are all musical instrument ie music of Serbia. In any case it is not RS, nor this source which is not RS mentione Diple as musical instrument ie music of Serbia. He also plays and šurle and sopile instruments characteristic for Istria [1] but this does not mean that these instruments are musical instrument ie music of Serbia.
• 3 Third source (Serbian internet portal) talks about an exhibition of different instruments in some Serbian museum ie in Museum Night event in all Serbia. For concrete (one museum exhibition) source says that: "Na izložbi preovlađuju srpski instrumenti iz vremena procvata narodne muzike u drugoj polovini XIX i prvoj polovini XX veka. "In the exhibition prevail Serbian instruments from the time of the flourishing of folk music in the second half of the 19th and the first half of the 20th century." Diple are not mentioned in the article nor are mentioned Diple as musical instrument ie music of Serbia. In any case it is not RS and the proof for this is source itself. Diple are mentioned in the title of this article which means that it is actually personal clame of the author of this article ie original research.

Therefore your opinion is not per sources, for this reason I kindly ask you to remove that part from the article or enter some information somewhere in the article if you find quality RS. Until then it would be nice to stop vandalizing the article and impose your own view of things. Mikola22 (talk) 17:40, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I am not going to go in circles with you. Writing a long answer, which just repeats the previous one is not helpful. We have a work of 2 ethnographers and 1 respected Magazine/review which are stating that diple are indeed part of Serbian music/tradition. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 17:52, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Sanja Radinović, ethnomusicologist: "Diple (grc. diploos dvostruk), narodni duvački instrument, rasprostranjen u bosanskim, hercegovačkim, crnogorskim i hrvatskim krajevima. "Diple (Gr. Diploos dvostruk), a folk instrument, widespread in the Bosnian, Herzegovinian, Montenegrin and Croatian regions." It is claim of Serbian ethnomusicologist from second source and review of audio cassette of Croatian born Darko Macura. Therefore she does not state that Diple are musical instrument of Serbia ie music of Serbia. Third source mention Diple only in the title: "ćurkalice, diple, gusle, tambure, rogovi, gajde, zurle, tarabuke, gočovi, talambaši i drugi originalni stari instrumenti" "and other original old instruments". It is a presentation of a museum exhibition, it is not RS. The first source does not mention diple as part of music of Serbia. In the Serbian book(2016) "Порекло музичких инструмената код Срба, на основу археолошких, историјских, етнографских и других података" "The origin of musical instruments among Serbs, based on archaeological, historical, ethnographic and other data" diple as Serbian instrument are not mentioned. Therefore things are clear, there is no RS which talking about diple as part of music of Serbia. Mikola22 (talk) 06:52, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

References