Talk:Dharawal

Gweagal's relationship with Eora & Tharawal groups

At the moment, there appears to be some overlap, confusion or muddied waters around how the Gweagal people fit into the Eora and Tharawal peoples. I don't have the time to dig deeper at the moment, but all three articles need some kind of clarification around the issue. There is a long list of bands and clans on the Eora talk page which may be useful - perhaps someone could look into this. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 08:04, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

True, as I noted when drafting these. The problem is historical: introduced diseases so rapidly devastated the primary population around Sydney, together with the effects of white deculturating practices, that confusion in the sources, and confusion in the traditions of identity among the survivors, has left notable difficulties in determining the shape and nature of interclan/'tribal' distinctions existing on the eve of the white conquest. As far as I understand, the best attempt to throw some kind of clarity on this is in the work, available only in Australian libraries, of a scholar called Kohen. If you can get you hands on his work, that would be the best starting point for regrounding many of these articles.Nishidani (talk) 08:15, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Nishidani. I can see how those problems would have arisen. I'm guessing this Kohen, J. L The Darug and their neighbours: the traditional Aboriginal owners of the Sydney region would be him. None available within easy distance of where I live, unfortunately. (I checked Worldcat and my local library network just in case.) Perhaps I'll put the citation under Further reading of each article, if it's not there already. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 10:48, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Yep, that's the book. It is absolutely fundamental for all groups in the Sydney area. By citation in other sources I could see how important it was. Surely some downunder wikipedians based in Sydney can get a hold of the book, and, if unable to afford the time, scan it to send on so that we can clear up the mess? It's terrible to see a problem, latch onto the obvious key for a solution, only to find that it remains there, but tantalizingly out of reach.Nishidani (talk) 11:15, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Irish below estimates 22-25 clans each of 25-50 members (this rough sketch is as far as I got), so 600 Aboriginals inhabited the immediate coastal area where settlement began. Many of the names we have for 'tribes' are actually clan names, and what that original set might have used as an autonymic identifier with respect to outlying groups like the Dharug/Dharawal/Darkinjung/Gandangara etc., can't be known.

• James L. Kohen, Daruganora: Darug Country, the Place and the People, Part 1 Darug Tribal Aboriginal Corporation, 2006 ISBN 978-0-646-46135-9 (unavailable on google)
• Jack Brook, Shut Out from the World, (1994) (idem)
• Maria Nugent,Botany Bay, Allen & Unwin (2005) ISBN 978-1-741-15488-7
• Dianne Johnson, Sacred Waters, Halstead Press (2007) ISBN 978-1-920-83137-0
• Heather Goodall, Allison Cadzow, Rivers and Resistance, University of New South Wales Press (2009) Searchable
• Grace Karskens, The Colony, Allen & Unwin (2010) ISBN 978-1-742-69058-2
• Val Attenbrow,Sydney’s Aboriginal Past, (2010) ISBN 978-1-742-23116-7 searchable.
• Paul Irish, Hidden in Plain View: The Aboriginal People of Coastal Sydney, NewSouth Publishing (2017) ISBN 978-1-742-23511-0 (critiqued here
• Stephen Gapps, The Sydney Wars: Conflict in the early colony, 1788-1817, NewSouth Publishing, (2018) ISBN 978-1-742-24424-2 searchable Nishidani (talk) 14:05, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

ps. The article name Gweagal should be changed to Gwiyagal, with the former as the white spelling alternative.Nishidani (talk) 14:35, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

History

For such an ancient civilisation, shouldn't there be more around the history of the Dharawal? It all seems pretty scant 150.207.146.139 (talk) 09:03, 9 August 2023 (UTC)