Talk:Dhanurasana

Revert unproposed/discussed merge

This page has <onlyinclude> tags in it which were removed by the reverted edit. These tags refer the content to a sandbox version of this and other pages I am building. If you wish to merge this and other pages in the mean time, please ensure the relevant content is still transcluded to my page User:Trev_M/Yoga_asanas (page merging and development). Thanks, Trev M (talk) 00:11, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

No need of merging notable articles. Just because they are not linked doesnt mean they are not notable. Also dont spoil mainspace articles with tags like <onlyinclude> which are to be used in templates only. Now.nupe (talk) 06:13, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Editing dispute

1. User:now.nupe is editing some of the W:Category:Asanas articles, and has undone a referenced edit of mine in this page without providing alternative references (please also note the general style of edits by the users in question).

Apart from what I have received from several professional teachers (following different schools) by word of mouth and so inadmissible here, the following are on-line if not definitive references that support my statement that now.nupe is changing. I do not have a definitive yoga text to quote from right now but I am attempting to get a reference from a definitive yoga text from one of my teachers. In the mean time the following reasonable-standard external links support my edit:

http://www.langkawi-yoga.com/chakrasana-wheel-pose.html ( the reference I gave) gives Halasana or Sarvangasana as the counter pose for Chakrasana.

http://www.free-yoga-classes.com/tag/yoga-poses defines counter pose: A counter pose is a yoga pose that stretches your spine in the opposite direction from a previous pose or returns your spine to a neutral position.

http://www.hathayogamysore.com/Home/courses says chakrasana(counter pose to halasana)

http://www.totalyogapractice.com/FreeYogaNewsletter0705.php says Repeat Dhanurasana 2 - 5 times. Counter pose – Any forward bending asana

http://www.fitsugar.com/Yoga-Pose-Wheel-aka-Backbend-Explained-885472 Hug your knees into your chest to release your lower back. Then roll up to a sitting position and do a Seated Forward Bend as a counter pose.

In the mean time, much "disinformation" has propagated based on this article (see wikitext - too much to display here)

2. I am working in the background – with respect to my own time spent on many articles in Wikipedia and with respect to the appearance of the yoga asana section – to build a page as an alternative to the List of yoga positions and the non-notable stubs linked only to it. When my page is complete, I will ask for a consensus as to whether it should be substituted or in some other way integrated. Consensus is not a process of one person's dissent preventing change, it is a process of accepting the majority's opinion or seeking to change it, and if this cannot happen, withdrawing one's minority views. I am prepared to abide by this process. I am attempting to build here, in public space, a yoga asana resource of the quality that I would like, that I do not feel able to do within the existing structure of the pages. So far, only two other editors have made any input to this dispute W:Talk:List of yoga positions who say delete the non-notable articles altogether.

In the mean time, I am using the process of transclusion to allow other editors to continue working on the documents that are incorporated in mine, whilst also making improvements in them myself. If now.nupe wants to merge Dhanurasana and Chakrasana, then I'm not going to argue, as long as my invisible noinclude tags and own merge propsal remain in them. Personally, I don't think merging two Asanas stubs (without even posting a merge proposal, when it is known that someone else is working on them) purely because they happen to be backbends, makes them any more notable and thus worth removing my own "merge" proposal from. So, please can I have my noincludes and the merge template I placed on the Dhanurasana page replaced or the pages reverted.

3. Finally User:now.nupe makes a personal remark about me in W:Talk:List of yoga positions that I ask editors with administrative experience to respond to, please. Trev M  ~  19:43, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Dhanurasana may be a stub, nobody may be editing it, but it is very much notable. Hence it deserves own article. It needs consensus to merge an article, and more so if you are merging dozens of articles. Show me where was that consensus formed for your big merge project? Now.nupe (talk) 04:15, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Third opinion

Third opinion: In this case, I think I'm going to agree with both of you somewhat. I find Trev M's edits of adding includeonly tags to be marginally disruptive, or confusing at the very least. If you're going to use the templating to include this page elsewhere, then just merge the article into there. Honestly I think that all of these poses should be merged into a List page, and only those with actual notability - like one has a greater significance or something - should get their own articles. Anyway, I more or less undid Now.nupe's edit for several reasons. The first is that it was particularly heavy on external links, particularly to blogs and such. The main reason, though, is that Wikipedia is not a how-to. People shouldn't be coming here to learn how to do yoga poses. There are plenty of other venues for such information - Wikibooks, maybe a yoga-themed Wikia, or other external sites. I think if you were to apply that logic to all the yoga pose pages, you might find that not all of them really deserve their own pages, and it would probably be better shuffled into a list page. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 19:34, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

User:HelloAnnyong's statement above is my argument entirely. To merge the non-notables into a list page is my focus but I wish to create a fairly resolved page in my personal space User:Trev_M/Yoga_asanas_(page_merging_and_development) and receive some feedback on its validity before pressing forward with a merge, either with that or the existing and difficult-to-work-on List page. In the mean time the transcludes and the proposal banner – which I agree don't enhance the stubs or make them easy to work on but do indicate that a proposal exists as to their future. How else would you suggest making a transition? Trev M  ~  20:50, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I'll ignore the huge issues with your Yoga asanas page as it's not nearly acceptable as a Wiki article in its current form. It's pretty gross to modify live article pages just so you can include the text on your own userpage, and it seems like you're kinda abusing edit privileges for your own gain, more or less. In this case, I would make a clean break: copy the text from each of the pages into your userpage. When the page is ready, merge the text into List of yoga postures or some other page. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 21:12, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Can you explain how trying to resolve issues with numerous pages is interpreted as for my gain? I began by this transclusion method in order to create minimum disruption in article space while compiling a new page, and because when I began it, I didn't have the confidence to go around deleting stubs and creating live articles. If you could give me one or two (or even a list!) of the most important issues that need to be resolved on the page I am trying to build, I'd be very grateful and willingy address them. I fully take on board the issue of it needing much more specific citation - that's one of getting at reliable references as there's basically nothing reliable on-line. I've posted it for comment twice before with a view to getting feedback, but received no input whatsoever. I will follow your advice of copying the text from the live articles to my page and removing the transclusions and onlyincludes, but this will take a few days. Thanks again for your constructive comment. Trev M  ~  23:05, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

By your gain, I meant changing the pages so that they could be included in a very specific way - that is, your list page. But I'd be glad to help. Since the conversation here should stay about this page, I'll leave my thoughts on User talk:Trev M/Yoga asanas (page merging and development). — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 01:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

• Dhanurasana is very much notable and widely practiced, hence does not call for merge nor merge tag. How can you justify merging Dhanurasana article? Merging related -Dhanurasana's which are not as much notable would be good option here. For you gain i mean that for ease of your work you are using includeonly tags, which is disruptive for others [1]. Now.nupe (talk) 04:17, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dhanurasana may be widely practised, but if all that can be said about it within WP:NOTHOWTO amounts to four lines which could as easily form a paragraph of a page on specific Asanas, what is its relevance other than as an automatic redirect to that section?

Now.nupe, you have not yet addressed my clear and referenced statement that an invertion of a posture (turning it upside down) is NOT a counterpose. Please do your own investigation into what a counterpose is. My understanding is that counterposes are poses that bend the spine in opposite directions and use opposing muscle groups! Please revert my edit of this part soon, when you have satisfied yourself that this is the generally accepted meaning of this term, or place a WP:RS (and non-circular!) ref alongside your statement, AND include mine with its ref.

Trev M  ~  11:33, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Now.nupe, who's to say that it's widely practiced? Do you have a source to back that up? Either way, the text you readded still violates WP:NOTHOWTO, so I've removed it again. Please don't readd it, as you've got two people here now telling you that it doesn't belong. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 14:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Akarna Dhanurasana is not the same as Dhanurasana

Why does 'Akarna Dhanurasana' redirect to 'Dhanurasana'? They are two very different poses. Akarna Dhanurasana is a seated pose with the right leg extended without a bend at the knee, right hand touching the big toe of the extended leg, and the left leg bent so that the big toe of the left leg touches the left ear. The left hand holds / supports the left leg in its place. (Of course you repeat the pose with the left leg extended and right leg bent...)

- Sarang — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.195.14.220 (talk) 07:37, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

This is the system across asanas. If it is a variation, it redirects.Curb Chain (talk) 15:56, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

It is not a variation at all, akarna dhanurasana is a seated pose, and dhanurasana or Bow Pose is a back bend, if you google them you will see the only relation they have is holding of the feet. Thus why the names are so similar. Both poses need there own page.Millertime246 (talk) 16:21, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Considering "akarna" means "inverted"? I don't know my sanskrit, but if it is prefixed, then it may be a variation. Also, there is no policy against making such an article.Curb Chain (talk) 19:54, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

It is not a variation. The two poses may have similar names (depending on the school of yoga) but they are otherwise unrelated. One looks like a bow, whereas the other looks like a person shooting a bow.Morganfitzp (talk) 22:10, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

By all means, please make the article. You will have to replace the redirectwikisyntax with the text you want the article to be.Curb Chain (talk) 23:44, 3 November 2011 (UTC)