Talk:Dez Skinn

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Controversy...

Is it worth mentioning the stuff Cat Yronwoode mentions about Dez allegedly snaffling up Miracleman royalty payments by claiming to be an agent for Mick Austin a/o? Does anyone know anything further about this? I've got scans of a Comics International feature where Dez says something along the lines of "Cat's apologised for criticising me in MM #24" or somesuch, but sadly there's no issue number on the scans. Anyone got any further information? Is this even worth mentioning considering Yronwoode could have basically been gibbering about nothing in the first place, or that it could have been a storm in a teacup which was sorted at the time?

Tom Prankerd 21:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On the controversy section: It seems rather large and I'm wondering if it can be trimmed down? I undid this removal of the bulk of material with no explanation but a trim seems in order as what seems like a relatively small dispute is taking up so much room and unbalancing things (after all the entry should focus on his decades of important work in the comic industry and WP:BLP suggests we should be sparing with controversial material). There is also a lot of commented out text in the entry (some of it resembling a talk page chat) which is throwing off the formatting and I don't really feel it needs to be there - if it is removed it can always be dug out of the history.

I'd suggest slimming down that section and either noting here what has been removed with a link or dropping the material in. If no one objects I'll start snipping soon - if anyone has any ideas then throw them in. (Emperor (talk) 00:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Controversy controversy

I removed the following material from the article as it still seems to be a source of contention and the citations are weak: -- stoshmaster (talk) 21:08, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In 2006 Skinn was sued in the High Court of Justice by Mick Anglo's family for inappropriately appropriating Marvelman.^[1]

Untrue. Skinn has never been to court, even as a visitor and is still good friends with Mick Austin, who would be amused at the idea of being paid twice for any work. Austin continued working with Skinn until the 1990s, advertising his posters in his Comics International #1. -- unsigned comment on the article page by Skinn supporter (or sockpuppet)

If this is untrue, why didn't you sue Eclipse Comics for libel? And why don't you produce that (probably fictitious) e-mail from Cat Yronwode? And why would Dave McKean post a comment about your having to sell Comics International to pay your legal fees for "stealing" Marvelman if it's untrue? (Dave McKean Says [on] March 7th, 2007 at 11:23 am "As many of you will know Comics International easily the UK’s longest running magazine was sold because Dez Skinn is currently being sued in the high court for stealing Marvelman and he needed the cash. Best of luck Dez") Perhaps Cat Yronwode, Alan Moore, and Mick Anglo's family could contribute to this section... -- unsigned reply on the article page by NamelcariM

And here's the material about Skinn's book Comix: The Underground Revolution (which I've left there for now) which seems to undermine the attack:

In 2004 Skinn authored the book Comix: The Underground Revolution for publisher Collins & Brown. Skinn's authorship of the book was contested by Patrick Rosenkranz and Trina Robbins. Rosenkranz alleged that Skinn had "extensively ''borrowed'' from his own book Rebel Visions: The Underground Comix Revolution 1963-1975, helping himself to quotes from many interviews" and reprinting "seven of my photographs without my permission". Skinn responded by insisting that "No theft was intended".^[2] Robbins noted that she wrote Chapter 6, "Girls on Top?" but was not given credit. "... Dez e-mailed me with a request to contribute a chapter on women in the underground ... I did get paid for it ... one usually expects to be credited for what one writes".^[3]

As stated before Wiki's update cut the comment, Rosenkranz was paid handsomely as soon as the infringement by a subcontractor was brought to Skinn's attention. -- unsigned comment by Skinn supporter (or sockpuppet)

Which subcontractor was responsible for the infringement? -- unsigned reply by NamelcariM

As also stated before Wiki's update cut the reply, Robbins was writing about herself primarily, so a credit would have been inappropriate. Also against publisher's house-style for individual credits outside of acknowledgement section. -- unsigned comment by Skinn supporter (or sockpuppet)

And regarding Skinn's first Comic Heroes column:

Irony? What condemnation? None such appeared in said column. Come on Wiki, can we clean this mess up please? -- unsigned comment by Skinn supporter (or sockpuppet)

"The Skinny: Skinn Sez on Downloads" compares downloading scanned comic books to stealing bottles of milk. If this is not condemning downloading comic books as theft, what is it, then? -- unsigned reply by NamelcariM

References

^ McKean, Dave. Comment in "'Under new management' – FPI speaks to Mike Conroy, new editor of Comics International," Forbidden Planet International (March 7, 2007).
^ Rosenkranz, Patrick (2004). "Steal This Book". The Comics Journal. 1 (263): 9. ISSN 0194-7869. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
^ Robbins, Trina (2005). "Memo From Dez Skinn's Ghost Writer". The Comics Journal. 1 (266): 8. ISSN 0194-7869. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

Clean up issues

I think there's a lot wrong with this article. The controversy section is wrong per the MOS, we don;t have such sections. It also contains a lot of unsourced statements regarding what happened. There are also a number of instances of weasel words and peacock terms, for example, in a number of instances Skinn is described as being "head-hunted". Unless we can source these assertions, we should use more neutrally minded language. The whole section on his involvement in chatlines is unsourced and again worded in a biased manner, and appears to be original research, perhaps based upon first hand knowledge. If it isn't verifiable in reliable, secondary sources, then it will ultimately have to go. I think it is also somewhat unbalanced, mostly due to the controversy header; rewriting the section an integrating it better into the article will establish better context. I think there also needs to be better sourcing regarding a lot of the claims Skinn is alleged to have made regarding copyrights, character conception and phrase coinage. There also needs to be sources found for the quotations used, and it generally needs copyediting for spelling and something of a complete rewrite based upon all the above concerns. I also removed a large number of commented out paragraphs; I don't think that's acceptable per WP:BLP. They're either in or they are out. Hiding T 11:02, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As an impartial eye, I deleted the controversy section unless/until it can be re-written completely cited, and without using gossip or forum websites. I started to leave the cited material, but it was written in such a way that it was dependant on the uncited material for substance. Feel free to rewrite and replace the cited material if accurate and necessary under WP:UNDUE. I am completely unfamiliar with the subject, so I could not attempt to do that justice. --Faith (talk) 21:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Did we really have to remove nearly everything? (Emperor (talk) 00:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Not a single bit of it was cited. I'll be honest; I know nothing about this subject, and have no particular interest in it apart from wanting it (and all other articles) to be cited and neutral. There's a serious problem with an article that has no citations, relies solely on a single source (particularly considering that's not a reliable source), uses peacock terms, is non-neutral, contains original research, contains so-called "criticism" sections, violates the Biographies of Living Persons policy, uses weasel words, needs copy-editing, a complete rewrite, is unbalanced, and has a bad lead section.

Parts of the article have nothing to do with him and everything to do with the comics he edited, which is a bad thing. Others praise him without any proof, citations or content. Others criticize him without any proof, citations or content. Some of his most controversial acts have no citations whatsoever. This is, without a doubt, the worst article I've ever seen in nearly four years here, and I say that not to criticize anyone, but to emphasize that it needs to be fixed. Ral315 (talk) 00:57, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Former Comics International editor Phil Hall has made numerous allegations about Skinn's character, including claiming that Skinn fired him in January 1997 for missing a business meeting to attend his mother's funeral.^[1]. Skinn claims that as Hall was working freelance, he could not be fired and that Hall's memory must be at fault as his mother had died almost a year earlier.

This was removed because it is factually inaccurate. As the person this 'fact' pertains to it is an insult to me to suggest that I lied about the date of my mother's death to 'win an argument'. There is documented evidence to state that Patricia Hall died on January 29, 1997. There are also issues over whether any person who worked for Skinn during the 1990s was freelance and this has been subject to a number of Inland Revenue investigations.

The entire article is a rewritten history of Skinn's life and has been written to besmirch the names of any person who he has fallen out with. - Phil Hall —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.18.8.102 (talk) 09:35, 19 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Skinn, Dez. [1] ComicsVillage.com: "The What If Scenario" by Phil Hall.

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[1] McKean, Dave. Comment in "'Under new management' – FPI speaks to Mike Conroy, new editor of Comics International," Forbidden Planet International (March 7, 2007).

[2] Rosenkranz, Patrick (2004). "Steal This Book". The Comics Journal. 1 (263): 9. ISSN 0194-7869. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

[3] Robbins, Trina (2005). "Memo From Dez Skinn's Ghost Writer". The Comics Journal. 1 (266): 8. ISSN 0194-7869. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

[4] Skinn, Dez. [1] ComicsVillage.com: "The What If Scenario" by Phil Hall.

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