Talk:Depsang Bulge

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What is Raki Nala?

Transcluded from Talk:2013 Depsang standoff. Discussion continues there.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

In January 2020, before the present standoff, voidvector added "Tiannan River" to the infobox, thereby making it appear as if Raki Nala and Tiannan River meant the same thing. The coordinates seemed to have been added by somebody by measuring 30 km. from DBO along the main road. (The current coordinates are in the vicinity of the LAC, as marked by the LSIB dataset and used in Google Maps).

But it is the equation Raki Nala = Tiannan River that is now turning out to be problematic. To make things clear, here is the overall Burtsa Nala, which is obtained by the joining of two streams: one from the north (Depsang Nala), and one from the east (the Chinese "Tiannan River"). The combined stream flows west and drains into the Murgo Nala.

If we equate Raki Nala with the Tiannan River, we can't make sense of many statements in the article as well as the sources.

The rival troops are actually positioned only 100 to 200 metre apart in the face-off site at Raki Nala in the Depsang Bulge area... ^[1]

If Raki Nala is supposed to mean the entire stretch of the west-flowing Tiannan River, what is meant by "at Raki Nala"? It could be anywhere along its 30-km stretch.

The face-off site in the Raki Nala was located 15 km east of Burste [Burtsa] where an Indo-Tibetan Border Police post is positioned.^[2]

This appears to give a more precise location along the Tiannan River valley but it is deceptive. The driving distance from Burtsa to the LAC is 9 km. So, 15 km is quite a bit further beyond the LAC.

A much better informed source (R. N. Ravi) wrote this:

They [Chinese] built a 20 km motorable road along Jeevan Nallah in 2010 and 15 km long motorable road along Raki Nallah from JAK II to GR 626516 in 2011-- both on the Indian side in the Depsang Plain without a scintilla of resistance.^[3]

He is talking about the southern one in this bunch of roads. It is 15 miles instead of 15 km, but that kind of error is quite common. But, notice that the vast majority of this road is not along the Tiannan River! The majority of it runs along a feeder stream that comes down from the Depsang Plains (in the north) and it is expected to be mostly dry because it doesn't originate in snow-capped mountains.

Another version of the statement was:

By 2011 the Chinese built 30 km motorable roads on the Indian side of the LAC originating from JAK II/ JAK I area along Raki Nallah cutting across the Indian patrol line and culminating at GR 626516 (35°08′56″N 78°06′23″E / 35.14886°N 78.10627°E / 35.14886; 78.10627–35°08′56″N 78°06′23″E / 35.14886°N 78.10627°E / 35.14886; 78.10627) in the Depsang Plains.^[4]

The coordinates are the two corners of the map grid that "GR 626516" refers to. It is near the LAC. This area has now been called "Bottleneck" or "Y-junction" and there were plenty of references to it as well as the Raki Nala during the 2020-2022 standoff. Praveen Swami writes:

[From the Bottleneck], Indian patrol lines that head north, along the Raki river, to Patrol Point 10, and then turn east and south to Point 11, 11A and then Point 12. For Indian soldiers, the positions involve a 48-hour hike, over brutal terrain.^[5]

His article also gives a map, where only the feeder stream from the north is marked as "Raki Nala".

In 2013, the Chinese had managed to complete a road behind the Bottleneck area in what is known as the Raki Nala region.^[6]

This suggests that the only the feeder stream is being referred to as the Raki Nala, and no part of the Tiannan River.

Given this prevailing terminology, I suggest that we modify our content to refer to only the north-south feeder stream as the Raki Nala. Tiannan River can be referred to as "Burtsa Nala", which is its traditional name. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:28, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That was a mistake on my part. I tried reverting it back. Might have missed some.

I remember the Chinese news article referred to "Tiannan River" while English article referred to the English/Indian name. Initially I thought they were the same, but after some investigation via maps, I realized each side could be referring to different rivers/valleys -- one closer to each side. I don't remember all the details, currently don't have time to dig it up. --Voidvector (talk) 23:49, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Rajat Pandit, China's Ladakh intrusion well-planned, but govt playing it down, The Times of India, 26 April 2013.
^ Mail Today Bureau, Let's shake hands: 20 days on, China withdraws troops from Ladakh, India Today, 5 May 2013.
^ R. N. Ravi, Smaller nations stand up to China's hegemony, we don't, Rediff, 29 April 2013.
^ R. N. Ravi, China intrusion: Government is misleading people!, Rediff, 13 May 2013., Page 7
^ Praveen Swami, As PLA Seeks to Cut Off Indian Patrol Routes on LAC, ‘Bottleneck’ Emerges as Roadblock in Disengagement, News18, 24 June 2020.
^ Snehesh Alex Philip, India-China tensions at Depsang, a disengagement sticking point, began much before May, The Print, 8 August 2020.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] Rajat Pandit, China's Ladakh intrusion well-planned, but govt playing it down, The Times of India, 26 April 2013.

[2] Mail Today Bureau, Let's shake hands: 20 days on, China withdraws troops from Ladakh, India Today, 5 May 2013.

[3] R. N. Ravi, Smaller nations stand up to China's hegemony, we don't, Rediff, 29 April 2013.

[4] R. N. Ravi, China intrusion: Government is misleading people!, Rediff, 13 May 2013., Page 7

[5] Praveen Swami, As PLA Seeks to Cut Off Indian Patrol Routes on LAC, ‘Bottleneck’ Emerges as Roadblock in Disengagement, News18, 24 June 2020.

[6] Snehesh Alex Philip, India-China tensions at Depsang, a disengagement sticking point, began much before May, The Print, 8 August 2020.

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