Talk:Dene Denny

Use of unreliable sources

A self-published, non-peer reviewed, primary source has been used 11 times (Wright's book). Please remove this unreliable source, and any associated content. Only content that is backed up by a reliable source - per Wikipedia's standards should remain. Netherzone (talk) 00:30, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would like substitute the citation with this one by the same author: https://archive.org/details/ccarm_008693/page/17/mode/1up?q=Dene+Denny+Hazel+Watrous See page 10. Let me know what you think? Greg Henderson (talk) 02:35, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is not an appropriate source. Please read what a reliable source is WP:RS. This is another primary source; it is the promotional Festival Program for the Carmel Bach Festival, that is self-published by the Carmel Bach Festival. It is not a work of scholarship like a book a published by a reliable press or an independent peer-reviewed journal article by a historian. It is not a newspaper report or an independent magazine review.

The Festival's promotional program is not subject to the same rigorous standards of fact-checking and accuracy that is required. The text in the program exists to give the audience something to read while waiting for the music to begin; it carries insufficient weight and rigor to be used in the encyclopedia - it's a vendor source with no evidence of having editorial oversight/policy or a fact checker team for such. Wright's entry is filler in an advertorial brochure. Courtesy ping @Melcous and @Graywalls for their thoughts and feedback. Netherzone (talk) 03:35, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This subject has been covered now in two WP:PRIMARY sources. Primary sources that have been published may be used in Wikipedia. It is not a personal websites, open wikis, personal or group blogs. Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established organization like the recognized Carmel Bach Festival. The programs include details of the music and performers, historical and biographical information and photographs. The chapter about Dene Denny was written by Connie Wright, which would be a secondary source that is independent from the subject. Notable authors in this citation include Bruno Weil Music Director of the Carmel Bach Festival. Other notables include David Gordon (tenor) and others. I don't think we should throw out a source that has these qualifications. Greg Henderson (talk) 01:30, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please demonstrate citation examples of Google Scholars, and other peer reviewed journals that recognize these people as subject matter experts. For example, if you were to go get a Ph.D in history, that's never going to be a access pass to cite yourself and your blog with impunity. Graywalls (talk) 01:44, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's a advertorial program for a music festival. It does not matter how many famous musicians may be associated with the festival, it's an event brochure. It is NOT a reliable source. Netherzone (talk) 01:45, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What sort of a source is this:[1] Netherzone (talk) 02:06, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is from Creating Carmel: the enduring vision. Greg Henderson (talk) 02:53, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But it also appears to be user-submitted content per this notice on the bottom of the uploaded file: (Updated by Margaret Pelikan (1983?) and added to by Lettie Bennett in 1993 and Lisa Walling in 2019.) Netherzone (talk) 02:57, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Got it, how about we use the “Creating Carmel: the enduring vision” book instead? Greg Henderson (talk) 03:27, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have replaced this unreliable source with the book “Creating Carmel: the enduring vision”. Greg Henderson (talk) 16:56, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please include page numbers for each time the book source is used so the claims can be verified. Thanks in advance. Netherzone (talk) 20:13, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, let me do this now. Greg Henderson (talk) 20:16, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Undue contents

I removed some trivia per WP:NOTGENEALOGY such as her family operating a ranch. This was not reflected in edit summary. Also, COPYRIGHT VIOLATION was found, which was linking to a pirated scan of newspaper. A newspaper maybe free to obtain through legitimate channel, however per WP:ELNEVER. we don't link to pirated copies. Same with news channels. We don't link to individual YouTubers who upload news clips. Graywalls (talk) 01:41, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]